Livernois Motorsports Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Livernois Motorsports purchased a running, 16,000 EcoBoost engine as a development piece to get a look inside the engine and develop new products for the platform. The crankshaft looks great, the rods also look pretty good, but the piston looked like it could be the weak point if pushed hard. This led us to the development of a new forged piston which is a 2618 material. It has much more material and revised cross section. Stock 16,000 mile piston/rod Comparison of stock vs. Livernois Motorsports Forged piston Livernois Motorsports Forged piston Thanks for looking! Regards, Rick LeBlanc Livernois Motorsports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoolinX2 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 That's a thing of beauty! Do you guys have plans to further develop/sell these, or are you just making a few batches? Seems like the pistons are always the weak spot in most Ford engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhenne4 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yea Rick keep us posted on availability and pricing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got5onIt Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Are the stock pistons forged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livernois Motorsports Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 That's a thing of beauty! Do you guys have plans to further develop/sell these' date=' or are you just making a few batches? Seems like the pistons are always the weak spot in most Ford engines.[/quote'] Thanks! Depending on demand we will further develop/sell them. Price would be higher if we did 1 set at a time, but we don't want 10 sets sitting on the shelf. Are the stock pistons forged? Nope -Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoolinX2 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Is there any sort of figures for what the limits are on stock internals? Mainly being rods and pistons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuruption Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 What about a group buy? What would be the cost of 6 pistons if you did 10 or 20 sets at a time? Maybe we can do a group buy for the initial production? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBrick Bob Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Have any of you thought about installation costs? Engine & Tranny need to be dropped out. Labor would be much like a full engine rebuild. Also think if one is doing this, a set of forged rods would be worthwhile, considering it wouldn't cost any more in labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First-SHO Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Bob is right, you will have to drop, disassemble, balance, assemble and install. Just so you know I did get a quote from Livernois and decided we will break first. For those interested in that price, ask Rick. Although if you have to ask you can't afford it.:fear: Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuruption Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Oh I know how much work would be involved, but at the same time, I know how addicted to speed some people can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBrick Bob Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 My guess is the labor would be between $2,000. & $3,000. plus parts. An alignment is also necessary. Here is some information on our EB engine internals along with an explanation about the stock pistons, which by the way, are made in Mexico.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First-SHO Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Your not even half way there Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBrick Bob Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Mike, So.. they are forged from gold?????? How are your new turbos coming along? Have you been able to drive it yet? So evidently you didn't go out to Milan to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First-SHO Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Mike, So.. they are forged from gold?????? How are your new turbos coming along? Have you been able to drive it yet? So evidently you didn't go out to Milan to watch. I am guessing the labor for install is a lot more than you think. Piston cost I bet is closer to your first number. Car is still at Livernois and will be there for another 2 weeks :RpS_cursing: I did get to hear the car after turbo install and cat removal. Sure have a nice whistle now. Did not head to Milan due to a little under the weather. I will give a full report and post dyno results when the car is completed. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojomofo21 Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Subbing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBrick Bob Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Mike, Besides the turbo's what are you doing to your SHO that takes all that long? (larger intercooler ?) You are likely correct on piston cost, as they are very limited quantity. If they were doing, say 50 a year, it would probably be cheaper to offer modded long blocks and then rebuild the customer's engine for the next install. I was basing the install cost on my boat experiences as well as the work done on my 09' G8 GT. Local installer charged me $1,700. to do DOD delete cam package(labor only, have heads ported/polished, install underdrive pulley, fluids etc. While this was done without pulling engine, it was quite labor intensive. Then paid him $650. for stall converter install + purchase and install of B & M tranny oil cooler. Mfg. of my converter is a lurker here as he has an Explorer Sport on order. Planning on joining when EB Sport arrives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First-SHO Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 The problem was scheduling. I got put on the back burner for other projects. Livernois Install Project Turbos Cat delete Meth injection with 4-gallon tank in trunk. MyCal mounted to Crash712us gauge pod with meth lights installed (MyCal was already mounted) 2013 trans cooler and flush the system with new filter LED lights on all time (from schematic on forum) Dyno Baseline and after turbos then after full installation. Upload 2 programs one daily driver and one max HP. Possible larger intercooler. My turbo guy's think stock will be fine. May look at head studs as well. Can't wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoolinX2 Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 $2-3k in labor I would hope would be tearing down the entire engine bay. I'm not sure I speak for a lot, but if I were to go the route of forged internals (if and only when a breakage occured). I'd do the work myself, and just have a shortblock assembled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First-SHO Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 $2-3k in labor I would hope would be tearing down the entire engine bay. I'm not sure I speak for a lot' date=' but if I were to go the route of forged internals (if and only when a breakage occured). I'd do the work myself, and just have a shortblock assembled.[/quote'] 2.5-3.5 x to low for the labor and yes the engine has to be dropped. It is a very extensive tear down, balance, build and install. Piston cost may be the $2-3K range and group buy may cut it in half. Just my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBrick Bob Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Unless your bigger turbos boost the MCT substantially, I would agree you don't likely need a larger intercooler. From my experience with my Methanol system (#10 nozzle & 75% methanol) in my Flex, I saw MCT temps below Ambient Temp when on FLA dyno (73 deg ave temp that morning). At the strip, my MCT curve is like a shallow "U". Always ends up below start temp. My pump comes on at 8 PSI and does not have a progressive controller. Either ON or not. In normal driving, I rarely see my pump light on. Removing the 3rd cat with a section housing a NESHO "X-Pipe" gave us slightly higher turbo boost #'s. Does Corsa delete the 3rd cat? Is that trunk mounted tank above, below or even with the Methanol Pump? I mounted my pump with lines on top, behind my Radiator coolant tank. Draws out of my W/W tank. Best part of Methanol in W/W tank is if windshield gets really buggy, I can "Burn" the suckers off! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First-SHO Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Turbo guy indicates +150 HP capability, but fuel will play a big part. We are working on options though. I will be running 100% methanol and #10 nozzle like Darrel is. I am not sure how Livernois will do the mounting the tank, but they have a G8 in the shop know that has the same setup. I am sure it will be above the pump as that is required by Alky. Yes, the Corsa system does delete the third cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBrick Bob Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 I have a Kenne Bell 40 AMP Boost-A-Pump that I turn on for WOT runs. It seems to help keep fuel to DI pump. At least one knows that stock in-tank pump is pumping up to 50% harder, so it isn't the fuel system limitation. Also using the 3 bar sensor which allowed for considerably higher boost levels. When boost levels went up at high RPM range in 2nd... FRP dropped off considerably. KB BAP seemed to help this, perhaps as much as 200 PSI, but Lambda #s were not out of range. Did lots of trial and error with Torrie. Amazing how much I learned. I assumed Alky Control wanted the pump to be gravity primed, as a precaution if seals start leaking. My lines run thru a filter with a check valve prior to pump. My system can be removed for dealer trips in about 15-20 minutes. Also have replacement piping from Intercooler to TB w/o methanol nozzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpd1151 Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 I spoke to Rick about the possibility of being able to purchase the pistons up front, and then hanging onto them on my end, until I get enough coin saved up for install. This way, it will at least justify from a company perspective, to continue producing them, and also justify continuing to embrace the EB platform. Rick seemed receptive, but commented that to do one set at a time, would be fairly pricey. So I agree with the whole "group buy" route, which may be the best course of action for those that may be interested in this newest product offering. I know my wheels were my big project for this year, but I may be able to eek out enough overtime to at least purchase the pistons alone. I'm sure Rick will keep us updated accordingly, as time permits amongst other LMS related projects they have going on with other customers and/or vehicle platforms. Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBrick Bob Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Mike, did you get a rough quote on how much they might be? The biggest issue to this mod is that they really don't improve performance by themselves. It's what you can do with the engine after they are installed. But then one has to figure mods to strengthen the rest of the drive train and to somehow increase the volume of the DI system. The real benefit is that the current mods will have a much greater margin of error, should s..t happen. Again, if one already is planning on porting heads and adding modded turbos, some of the labor would be covered by doing everything at once, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpd1151 Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Rick did not offer a price, nor did I ask, seemed to new even to them for LMS to even begin think'n about pricing. Anyhow, I agree, this alone will not be of much benefit, but combined with other things, collectively, it will. All the more reason perhaps I'd be inclined to purchase the pistons outright, along with other projects, and then once all hypothetical parts are collected, I can then coordinate one single, solitary tear down and install. Just my initial .02 cents worth on the matter..... Pretty much everything else i've proposed doing (as far as mods) have been completed thus far..... so it's not really an issue for me of do I really want to, but more so, when i'll be able to do so in relation to financials on the home front. But a group buy on something like this, would certainly be of benefit to all involved. Just think'n out loud perhaps :bolt: Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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