GT 500 Brakes?

Has anyone looked into how easy/whats involved in transplanting a set of 15" rotors/ calipers from a 2013 GT 500? Ideally I'd like to see a company out with some supertrick cmc rotors and monobloc Brembo's but cost would be stupid, so something affordable would from Ford has me thinking, what if.

I wish! Although I am sure it could be done and has been done by a few custom shops. I would think we just need someone to make a adapter to mount the calipers. I work at the plant where the mustang is built, when I return from shut down. I will take a trip out to trim to get a look at the steering knuckles and see how there mounting bembo's to them. If they can be fitted it wouldn't be as expensive as the wilwood mod. Check tasca caliper are $225 and rotors $120 and of course there will be other minor odds and ends but these are biggest priced items. But for now this all thats known that is available for us.

http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/flex-/-sho/kits-23/

Just did some quick checking at foreparts.com, and I wish they list the yoke with a part number but caliper and yoke come as assembly. You can't just buy one, I was hopping to cross reference and part number from the sho to a mustang. As the lower model mustangs w/o bembo's calipers mount to a yoke, the bembo's mount straight to the steering knuckle. And I would bet money the steering knuckles are the same across all model mustangs. Of course I will have to cross reference to be sure, but if mounting holes are of the same pattern, size. One would like it may bolt right up? Would be nice to have the blue prints to all these parts, then it would be easy to see if the bembo's will bolt up.

I know that when i was looking at aftermarket brakes i found the new front Brembo calipers from the SRT8 Jeep for $675pr. Then you could get the GT500 rotors to put something together. As far as mounting the caliper most speed shop can make a adapter so you can mount them.

You can get brand new gt 500 brembo's from tasca for $450.

....if things were only this easy.

You can get brand new gt 500 brembo's from tasca for $450.

I know you can get the 2012 GT500 4 piston brembo's for about that much but that only supports up to a 14 inch rotor. The 2013 GT500 Calipers are running 700+ for the 6 piston calipers that support up to a 15inch rotor.

Todd, I realize fitting every thing is the easy part. Factoring in Piston area on the caliper and finding out if the master cylinder area is right for it, testing, seeing if there's good feel, making changes, testing etc, etc, can be the tricky part. Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like the aftermarket utilizes thier own calipers that are already designed and used in other applications. Seems to me if something can be made from stock parts that performs well, then whats the harm? After all isn't the aftermarket using components from thier own parts bin to make systems?

Cross fit oe parts swaps are certainly nothing new. But going on 20yrs now in the brake kit business I can honestly say that few of them ever make it past the brainstorming phase like this. Certainly done with good intentions but the results are usually less than the expectations.

I can tell you that fitting everything up is definitely not the easy part. Sourcing the parts is the easy part as consumers love to prowl ebay and the junk yard looking for more higher end exotic calipers they feel they can 'make work'. In fact I'd say it's the assembly that usually puts the final nail in the coffin on these types of ideas. With 10-12 major players to pick parts from nearly none of them share the same formula for assembly- different mount bosses, different mount radius, different hat offsets, lug mount, radial mount...most do what their engineers feel is the plan for the project and are not to concerned about what what the parts swap buyer is needing.

The aftermarket has a huge array of parts to select from that are intended to be of a universal fit design. They then rely on the builder (be it in house or out) to assemble the parts in a manner to be fit to the vehicle. In the case of larger kits like what are being talked about here that's usually in the form of 2pc hats and rotors and radial mount brackets. Both of those are what make the kits fit and take some universal items and turn them into application specific designs.

For the most part by the time folks are done with some of this the net savings tends to be pretty minimal. Factor in the time lost and the profit of the guy doing the work (after working it out you know they are not going to give it away for free, sooner or later it becomes profit motivated) you may be a few bucks ahead but still be better served by an offering from someone in the business. Just sharing with you what I've seen and experienced over the years ..

Look at it another way; you could have just purchased a base Taurus and put a turbo charger off an Eclipse or Evo on it. You'd have saved a ton of money and I bet if we look around we'll find one that comes close to fitting. And seeing how well they work on an Evo the performance will be pretty much the same on a Taurus....Most will find this analogy foolish of course, but it's much the same story.

Todd I appreciate you sharing your experiences, for me I was just brain storming. I know the are a lot of different factor at play here. I just don't understand why you get a brake kit for a fiesta or a fusion or even edge, but not a taurus. Mind boggling.

I have no beef with the conversation here, just tossing out thoughts from the other side as well. By all means keep searching, there may be something out there that can help. But I really doubt it's going to be off one specific car. Pulling calipers off one, rotors off another, machining the hat or re drilling them, building brackets and prototypes...it's just more time consuming than folks may realize. It's just never as easy as it reads.

Finding a kit for the Taurus is not all that hard; while I have only the front done it's available. The rear poses the same problem as it has always; the combo caliper.

Now..why such brakes were not installed factory new? I suspect it's a supply and demand deal. I don't see the market bearing another $2k in custom factory Brembos. The new SHO just doesn't yet oooze the same racer mentality as the older car did from what I see. Spirited business sedan yes. No 'm class' or 'srt' sort of package tho.

I know when i'm ready to drop the coin on TCE's brake upgrade, i'll be personally asking Todd to PC my calipers in White, and do the WildWood logo in black.

Probably an upcharge i'm guessing, but I won't deviate from my overall current blk/wht color theme by introducing a different color.

Besides, I like the way the white appears currently on my stock set up (as I have painted them). Super hella cool! :thumb:

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I know when i'm ready to drop the coin on TCE's brake upgrade, i'll be personally asking Todd to PC my calipers in White, and do the WildWood logo in black.

 

Probably an upcharge i'm guessing, but I won't deviate from my overall current blk/wht color theme by introducing a different color.

 

Besides, I like the way the white appears currently on my stock set up (as I have painted them). Super hella cool! :thumb:

 

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LOL... suckup.

Todd. I'm interested in a brake package for next spring, winter is too close now and I'm spending big bucks on my daughters university next week to do it now. Give me some real performance improvement numbers your kit gives over my 2012s stock brakes. I've got the PP so the tires should be up to letting it stop sooner. What are the disc weights and diameter over stock and what kind of brake fade am I too expect if I push the car hard on a brake heavy road. I would also like a 15" rotor do you guys do that?

The kit Steve is 14.25 x 1.25 and uses the W4A caliper.

I use the 4 not 6 due to piston area requirements. It's my belief that the six pots are either too much or too little relative to the needs and the rear brake. Deviating too much can alter both the bias as well as the feel and response. The 4 is a tad less area which will firm up the pedal a bit and using the 14.25" rotor will bring back the loss of torque. While the small 6 looks favorable for bias the necessary increase in pressure needed will surely hit the knee point of the proportioning valve too soon and reduce the effectiveness of the rear brakes..not a good plan.

The rotors offer more mass and diameter as well as directional casting. And probably a bit of weight savings.

As for stopping distances I'd not expect huge gains in distance due to "more brake" jut a better response and modulation. Combined with more mass and stability under extreme use. Ie. no fade with proper pad. Maximum braking will remain limited by the tire to the road surface. If it's raining you won't stop any shorter with big brakes. Same on dry for the most part. You'll get there sooner and have a better feel on it.

I don't see 15" rotors as an option for this due to the bracket height tho.

As for white caliper...hmm. I know Wilwood (let's not put WildWood logos on them!) did some white not long ago but doing so you better plan to pony up and buy in early.

I've been looking into braking upgrades since i got the SHO. Before the new PP came out i was looking at the new Jeep SRT 6 piston calipers which i could run up to a 15" rotor, or get the '12 GT500 and run 14" brakes. The main benefits for me is with brembo's i would get a much larger variety of brake pad options(Hawk or EBC) more readily available that in addition to the larger rotor would give the car the ability to deal with heat generated by the brakes better than OEM pads. Which is good for me given i like to AutoX, do road courses, and mountain runs. The biggest obstacles i can see would the mounting brackets, which thankfully since we have a few speed shops i could get custom brakes machined. If you decided to run the larger 15" caliper you'd may be able to go with a '13 GT500 rotor depending on the hat offset and center bore. Aside from that you'd have to come up with something for SS brake lines and brackets and a new dust shield (15" brakes only). Thankfully i have several speed shops near me that could do the custom work without charging a crazy amount.

In the end like any mod you should be thinking about what you want out of the car. With the '13 PP brake upgrade available that will suite 9/10 people needs to better the braking in the SHO. For most people who are that 1/10 a kit like what TCE is offering is a very good option, give no custom work is needed. All you do is bolt it up.

Maybe the aftermarket industry will make kit that utilizes the 2013 Brakes? Though I have to wonder if changing out the calibers and rotors will be enough. Correct me if I am wrong the Master Cylinder was also re-valved. I think the rears are just vented and the same size. At BIR I was really impressed with the car braking, though I could not compare it to earlier models.... But those that drove may car on the track were also impressed, on how the car braked time after time, they have driven the 2010-12 SHO....

My only complaint is I have pad material still stuck to my rotors.. which I will take care of this winter.. I am thinking of changing pads and get SS lines.

I have upgrade to better pads (Stop Tech / Hawk on rear) and slotted rotors. It helps greatly, but the lack of firm pedal is still there. Far better than stock, that is for sure. I think stainless lines would also help. I wish I could pickup the TCE kit, but it is just not in the budget. I think I would go that route, even if someone adapted the GT500 brakes to fit. Brakes are sorta important, so I don't think I would risk my life or someone else's on a backyard kit.

If braking feel is what your mainly concerned with then getting the new '13 PP brake booster and master cylinder would be the best way to accomplish that.

It's a little about feel, but more confidence. With the upgraded pads / rotors, my 2010 stops better, but the pedal feels as if the brakes are failing / fading. Really reduces your confidence in the brakes. I still find it hard to believe Ford let the car hit the market like that, but I guess it allowed them to push the upgraded brakes in the 2013 as a selling feature....

I have Power slot rotors and Stop Tech pads on the front of my Flex. Since it uses different part numbers than SHO, I couldn't do what Red Candy SHO did on rear, but also upgraded both rotors and pads in back, with what was available. Since I am running 18"s which both have big weight savings, plus rotational mass is closer in, using either my Conti DW's or Michelin Pilot Sports, I can say that in my driving, my Flex definitely stops quicker. I haven't tracked it like Mac, so assume it will show much more fade over several stops, but in street driving it is worth the change.

If I were going to track one of my cars, I would definitely talk to Todd about a full Wilwood kit. Tracking one of my G8's would be a blast, (need track school lessons) but to make it work right, would require a full pedders kit plus the brake upgrades... Can you say $6K!!!!!!!

Yea gotta remember that besides the engine not much is different between a non PP SHO and a SEL or limited. And most buyers who get the two lower models are not as concerned about braking feel. the '13 PP is what a complete SHO should be, better braking and brake feel and a performance oriented suspension, and drivetrain durability upgrade.

Wonder why the pad difference??? From my research the only difference in the calipers (to my current knowledge) is that the rear of the Flex has a slightly larger piston. (45mm vs 43mm)

I show the same front caliper used on the cars so far. Granted I've not put my hands on a 2012 and probably won't anytime soon.

Hmm...wait...wait... try this idea:

We went from this: [ATTACH=CONFIG]944[/ATTACH]

To this:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]945[/ATTACH]

Makes me wonder if they bumped up the rotor size using the same caliper and have somehow fudged the pad onto it.

I haven't measured it yet but i do know that there is a different part number for the '13 PP vs Non-PP front and rear calipers.

I could see a change due to the larger rotor requiring a new mount height on the bracket. Be surprised if the pistons grew from 48mm tho.

And I'd put $10 on it that they fit the 45mm to the rear over the 43mm due to the increased rear weight.