racerx78 Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Saw this on autoblog today. GM's new 3.6 TT V6 with 420HP and 430TQ is going to make Ford setup up their game with the 3.5 EB motor. This motors is going to eventually be in their trucks to atleast we know where the next generation EB is going to go. http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/18/cadillac-confirms-420-hp-twin-turbo-v6-for-2014-cts-w-videos The 2014 CTS will break cover next week at the New York Auto Show, but Cadillac has released a few details of what we can expect to find under the car's hood. As we saw in some spy shots back in January, the biggest news for the midsize Caddy will be a twin-turbocharged V6 producing a whopping 420 horsepower and 430 pound-feet of torque. This LF3 engine will be paired to a new eight-speed automatic transmission, which will help balance performance and fuel economy. We still don't know how much the 2014 CTS has grown in terms of size and weight, but General Motors says that new sedan will return 17 miles per gallon in the city and 25 mpg highway with the new engine to go with a 0-60 mile per hour time of 4.6 seconds – that means the new CTS will have the fuel economy close to the current base model sedan and acceleration not too far from the current CTS-V. General Motors also confirmed that this twin-turbo V6 will be available in the 2014 XTS this fall. The next-generation CTS will carry over the 3.6-liter V6 from the current car (likely as a base engine) and also add the 2.0-liter turbo four-cylinder from the ATS. Check out all the details on this new engine and watch a few videos (including GM's nifty tilt rig) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpd1151 Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Interesting read. Thnx for the link. Competition is a good thing, & hopefully FMC will be able to "step up their game" accordingly :noidea: I know from the contacts I spoke with at the CAP, as well as Corp Offices in Detroit, the major influencing factor for Ford NOT having gone past 400hp at the fly, was due entirely to Federal Insurance Regulators threatening to not allow FMC to label the SHO as a family sedan, if the hp was at, or beyond that marker. I wonder if things have changed since 2009/2010 when production was 1st commencing on the EB motors? Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOdded Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Thanks for the link, Racerx. Any idea on the specs for the LF3? It seems that people with a Livernois tune are at/above those numbers already with the Ecoboost, and I am sure Cadillac will be including a premium built into the cost of the CTS. Wouldn't be surprised if the LF3 runs on premium fuel. Plus, I think the Ecoboost platform (with the 3.5L at least) has proven itself reliable over the last few years. I think the MKZ is being directly targeted by GM for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoman04 Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 FORD AND GM have work together so much the last 6-10yrs this engine is a copy of the EcoBoost with a different manifold intake. Not solen worked together. Like our transmission. 6T70&75 GM 6F50&55 FORD LOOK THEM UP. TOGETHER FORD AND GM PLAN ON KICKING THE WORLD AUTOMAKERS BUTTS!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOdded Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 I knew about the transmissions, will be interesting if the engine shares a similar background Ultimately, the engine is the "glamor shot" of a vehicle. How many people get to look at a transmission when they are drooling over the vehicle? I am wondering if GM is taking care not to poach sales from Ford, if they did indeed share engine development effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx78 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Thanks for the link, Racerx. Any idea on the specs for the LF3? It seems that people with a Livernois tune are at/above those numbers already with the Ecoboost, and I am sure Cadillac will be including a premium built into the cost of the CTS. Wouldn't be surprised if the LF3 runs on premium fuel. Plus, I think the Ecoboost platform (with the 3.5L at least) has proven itself reliable over the last few years. I think the MKZ is being directly targeted by GM for now. Given its going into a caddy initially it probably will be premium only. But eventually this will be put in to their fullsize pickup trucks so they will need to be adapted to run on regular. Most DI engines today can run on regular but need premium to get the best performance and fuel economy. FORD AND GM have work together so much the last 6-10yrs this engine is a copy of the EcoBoost with a different manifold intake. Not solen worked together. Like our transmission. 6T70&75 GM 6F50&55 FORD LOOK THEM UP. TOGETHER FORD AND GM PLAN ON KICKING THE WORLD AUTOMAKERS BUTTS!!!!!! I've known about the tranny JV with Ford and GM but not the engines. i've never heard anything of it. The LF3 is based off they NA LFX, which came from the LLT which was originally the LY7. From what i've read there are no links to ford and gm in regards to this engines architecture. The 3.5 Ford Cyclone/Duratec engine that the SHO's engine is shared with mazda, but thats all i've seen. I knew about the transmissions' date=' will be interesting if the engine shares a similar background Ultimately, the engine is the "glamor shot" of a vehicle. How many people get to look at a transmission when they are drooling over the vehicle? I am wondering if GM is taking care not to poach sales from Ford, if they did indeed share engine development effort.[/quote'] I'm sorry GM is trying to take as much wind out of Ford sails as possible with this new engine. Given all the platforms they use they have the ability to put this engine in more vehicle than ford. Currently the SHO's engine is in the 3 different ford products. I can easily see this new GM engine being in their ATS-V, CTS, Escalade, XTS(maybe), Silverado, tahoe, suburban, sierra & yukon. So it will be interesting to see how this play this. Hopefully it forces Ford to do more with this 3.5EB motor. It be nice to see it in the new Fusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx78 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Interesting read. Thnx for the link. Competition is a good thing, & hopefully FMC will be able to "step up their game" accordingly :noidea: I know from the contacts I spoke with at the CAP, as well as Corp Offices in Detroit, the major influencing factor for Ford NOT having gone past 400hp at the fly, was due entirely to Federal Insurance Regulators threatening to not allow FMC to label the SHO as a family sedan, if the hp was at, or beyond that marker. I wonder if things have changed since 2009/2010 when production was 1st commencing on the EB motors? Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2 Given its being put into a Caddy its already going to be labeled a "Luxury" car by insurers so their not worried about the "Family Car" title. I've not heard of any Chevy products this could be going into either. I doubt the would put it in the impala, given the SS will be coming out with similar numbers. On a side note its funny how these new TT V6 motors are putting out power figures that are seriously close to NA V8s, all the while being lighter and getting better fuel economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 I read that article earlier today from another car forum (Impala). I did not read anything that said the engine would be available in either 1 of the Cadillacs in all wheel drive form. Think current SRT8 and CTV. Even though both of those platforms are available in all wheel drive, with the upgraded engines, they are not. I just would like confirmation that the new twin turbo engine will be available with all wheel drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx78 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 After taking some time to look at the animation for this engine, i see some very interesting design features. The motors design is more compact, with a different setup for induction. Completely different from the SHOs traditional turbo setup with an intercooler located away from the engine. The LF3 has two small(4"x10"x4"approx) intercoolers for each turbo that are mounted on top of the engine on either side of the throttle body. The that whole setup then has a cover over it. The Pros of this setup are with such a short distance between the turbos, intercoolers and throttle body this should be a very responsive engine with no lag at all. The Cons of this setup are unless the have some type of air-to-water cooling system i cannot see how the intercoolers don't heat soak as soon as the car stops moving. The benefit of the SHO's and most turbo setup is the intercooler is typically in front front of the engine in the bumper. That why even at a stand still like waiting at a light(or Drag Tree) the intercooler is exposed to fresh air at all times so your intake temps dont spike. And when racing you don't have to worry about your increasingly hotter engine robbing you of heat by heat soaking your intercooler. The is only of the main problems with the Mazdaspeed3 and STi, that since their intercoolers are on top of the motor they heatsoak easily. That is why most aftermarket mods include switching to a FMIC setup. The other issue is with intercoolers so small, and tucked away in such a little space the amount of power you can make has to be limited unless again there is a air-to-water cooling setup for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx78 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 I read that article earlier today from another car forum (Impala). I did not read anything that said the engine would be available in either 1 of the Cadillacs in all wheel drive form. Think current SRT8 and CTV. Even though both of those platforms are available in all wheel drive' date=' with the upgraded engines, they are not. I just would like confirmation that the new twin turbo engine will be available with all wheel drive.[/quote'] I doubt i will be offered in AWD for the ATS-V as that engine would be the high end powertrain for it. In the CTS this LF3 will not be the top powertrain choice so their is the possibility that is offered in a AWD platform. They they just may beef up the current drivetrain. Similar to ford going from teh 6F50 to 55 for the SHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoman04 Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 I knew about the transmissions' date=' will be interesting if the engine shares a similar background Ultimately, the engine is the "glamor shot" of a vehicle. How many people get to look at a transmission when they are drooling over the vehicle? I am wondering if GM is taking care not to poach sales from Ford, if they did indeed share engine development effort.[/quote'] For the last 3-4yrs FORD have gone at EUROPE, GM after ASIA and both of them against Chrysler. They do not go at each other in conmercial. Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx78 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 A little more compact actually. The F10 M5 has the turbos in between the V8 in the center of the motor and the intercoolers are directly in front of the motor. Just like the new Audi 4.4 TT V8. With the LF3 the turbos are still on the side of the motor just after the exhaust. Either way packaging is very tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero69 Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Whats funny is with an eight speed transmission and only rear wheel drive it gets the same gas mileage as the AWD SHO or MKS stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve142857 Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Still good mileage for more power than our ecoboost. Gotta give props to GM for joining the game of TT engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Still good mileage for more power than our ecoboost. Gotta give props to GM for joining the game of TT engines. Agree, totally. I like that XTS...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx78 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Agree' date=' totally. I like that XTS......[/quote'] A LF3 with AWD would be an interesting competitor for the MKS with EB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 ^^ The only reason I did not buy an XTS AWD was because the engine was the same 3.6 engine they put in rental fleet 2012 Impalas......I chose the Ford/Lincoln BECAUSE of the engine. With 400 HP+ out of the box in an AWD XTS, being honest here, I would take the Caddy simply due to having great servicing GM dealers here and not so good Ford dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griggs95 Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 I totally disagree with the mileage. Our cars with AWD and tunes still get 25-27 highway or better in a 6 speed. This thing has a freakin' 8 speed and 25...that's horrible!! These new cars should be getting 30 at least on the highway or take out the 8 speed....wtf? Maybe that's just gm's engineering and should look for another bail out if they can't do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travSHO Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 typical gm...take a Ford product and reverse engineer it. O well...I like it when competition steps up their game, because that makes Ford make tweeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulford8 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 I'm sorry GM is trying to take as much wind out of Ford sails as possible with this new engine. Given all the platforms they use they have the ability to put this engine in more vehicle than ford. Currently the SHO's engine is in the 3 different ford products. I can easily see this new GM engine being in their ATS-V' date=' CTS, Escalade, XTS(maybe), Silverado, tahoe, suburban, sierra & yukon. So it will be interesting to see how this play this. Hopefully it forces Ford to do more with this 3.5EB motor. It be nice to see it in the new Fusion.[/quote'] How do you figure 3 products? SHO, F150, Flex, MKS, Explorer, and MKT wagon. I count 6 unless I am wrong...... I like Fords overall EB line myself, I think the 4 cly 240hp EB is a good motor for the Fusion. Yeah it would be a rocket with a 3.5, but from what I understand the next gen Taurus will have a bit of a diet. This will get GM some press and revival. Most of my GM buddies have been impressed with the monster torque these make. Will be interested to see how the GM motor turns out and performs. Really hope to meet one at the track Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGFOOT Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Ford engineers must just be ROFL'ing right now. when ford said that the 3.5EB would be the goto motor in the F150, GM doubted it. not the EB is a FORCE to be reckoned with and GM is slapping together an answer. what will ford do? my guess...crank up the boost 2PSI and rate the car EBs are 425/425. and if the next gen SHO is what i hear ford is gunning for(ATS/charger) i might be selling my beloved 11 for a 15/16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve142857 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Actually Ford could save some money and ask Livernois their tune for EB... 435hp/435lbs in the pocket! Already been tested for three years by 2,000-3,000 customers... Meanwhile they could start working on a V8 Ecoboost for Mustang Shelby and Raptor! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Totally agree. /\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx78 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 How do you figure 3 products? SHO, F150, Flex, MKS, Explorer, and MKT wagon. I count 6 unless I am wrong...... I like Fords overall EB line myself, I think the 4 cly 240hp EB is a good motor for the Fusion. Yeah it would be a rocket with a 3.5, but from what I understand the next gen Taurus will have a bit of a diet. This will get GM some press and revival. Most of my GM buddies have been impressed with the monster torque these make. Will be interested to see how the GM motor turns out and performs. Really hope to meet one at the track LoL, yea i forget about the flex sometimes since i so rarely see them around me. I try to purge the MKT from my memory. and yes the Explorer Sport as well. Sadly even though the F150 sales extremely well, most of the other EB models don't sell as well. None the less automotive tech is moving along nicely. As much as i like V8s they are becoming less and less relevant in practical applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash712us Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Ford has plenty more power they can pull from these motors to match the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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