Lesterg69 Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 I am not a very technical person just know enough to get me in trouble in my opinion the cars today work off PFM (pure fucking magic) I do know that the PCM and the 4x4 module are the 2 components that control the torque input for the rear diff. They are both part of the high speed can network and the tech said he would not know of any way to program 100% actuation to the ATC but it may be possible to measure the voltage imput at the ATC and it could be as simple as applying 12 volts to clutch for full actuation. If that is the case it could be as simple as installing a 12 volt toggle switch to the ATC but to find out for sure will take some testing on my car. Unfortunately we both work 12 hour days and he has 6 kids and can't stay late after work because he has a second job at home with all his kids. Our work load at the shop is full so it may take some time to find this info out but my curiosity is struck and I would like to know the answer so please be patient and I will do what I can. Thanks, Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulford8 Posted November 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Great info Lester. I think ideally we would find a way to even things out if possible. Sounds like your booming/busy. Dont put more important things off to try and help us saps that are burning off the front tires. After all we are the ones that choose to hook up a high pressure alkly pump and pump methanol into our motors I work for Cat and I know we have at least 1 powertrain engineer that was recently a Ford powertrain engineer. Problem is I cant remember the guys name and the building he is in has over 1,500 people working in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewat Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Remember that transmissions multiply torque. 1st gear is 4.484:1, for 2013 at least. If the engine is putting out 100ft/lbs, the tranny puts out 448.4ft/lbs of torque. So, a theoretical 350ft/lbs from the Ecoboost, and you can easily see tranny output torque around 1500ft/lbs. A 50/50 division of torque front-to-back would mean 750ft/lbs would have to go to the input of the rear diff. My PP 2013 SHO has a 3.16 final drive, so the wheels would see 2370ft/lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigPelo Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Remember that transmissions multiply torque. 1st gear is 4.484:1' date=' for 2013 at least. If the engine is putting out 100ft/lbs, the tranny puts out 448.4ft/lbs of torque. So, a theoretical 350ft/lbs from the Ecoboost, and you can easily see tranny output torque around 1500ft/lbs. A 50/50 division of torque front-to-back would mean 750ft/lbs would have to go to the input of the rear diff. My PP 2013 SHO has a 3.16 final drive, so the wheels would see 2370ft/lbs.[/quote'] Minus friction and giration loss which increase with RPM. Look at the green line on this graph: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedCandySHO Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 I am looking into the 4x4 module with some contacts and in the PCM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoBoat Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 I decided to plug in my vin and our Explorer's (2011) vin into the ford parts website. I can confirm the the majority of the drive line carry the same part numbers. The power take of assembly part numbers in particular are the same. Also this got me thinking about the 2013 Explorer sport that comes with the same "mode" dial as ours. Allowing the driver to change on the fly how much power is sent to the rears. This would indicate to me at least that it is possible to adjust the power more to the rears in the SHO. And it should be fairly easy with the correct programmer. That is the bigger issue, I would be curious how the explorer launches tuned in sand mode. As this puts up to 60% of the engine power to the rear. Also would it be possible to just switch out the control module with the explorer to ours? Lots of questions.... Not sure if this is what we are looking for but the transfer case control module #7E453(TM-254) is the same for both also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First-SHO Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 I decided to plug in my vin and our Explorer's (2011) vin into the ford parts website. I can confirm the the majority of the drive line carry the same part numbers. The power take of assembly part numbers in particular are the same. Also this got me thinking about the 2013 Explorer sport that comes with the same "mode" dial as ours. Allowing the driver to change on the fly how much power is sent to the rears. This would indicate to me at least that it is possible to adjust the power more to the rears in the SHO. And it should be fairly easy with the correct programmer. That is the bigger issue' date=' I would be curious how the explorer launches tuned in sand mode. As this puts up to 60% of the engine power to the rear. Also would it be possible to just switch out the control module with the explorer to ours? Lots of questions.... Not sure if this is what we are looking for but the transfer case control module #7E453(TM-254) is the same for both also.[/quote'] Interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrylu Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 I decided to plug in my vin and our Explorer's (2011) vin into the ford parts website. I can confirm the the majority of the drive line carry the same part numbers. The power take of assembly part numbers in particular are the same. Also this got me thinking about the 2013 Explorer sport that comes with the same "mode" dial as ours. Allowing the driver to change on the fly how much power is sent to the rears. This would indicate to me at least that it is possible to adjust the power more to the rears in the SHO. And it should be fairly easy with the correct programmer. That is the bigger issue' date=' I would be curious how the explorer launches tuned in sand mode. As this puts up to 60% of the engine power to the rear. Also would it be possible to just switch out the control module with the explorer to ours? Lots of questions.... Not sure if this is what we are looking for but the transfer case control module #7E453(TM-254) is the same for both also.[/quote'] I don't know if I'm misunderstanding but the connection made in my head as I read this interesting thought is ....that it reminds me of the LMS "grade assist" bonus that was made accessible for some of us in an early version of 4+. The icon I saw in my SHO at that time was the same icon I saw in a rented Explorer with the rotary Mode knob on the console. What if that control could be accessed through our tunes to adjust the front/rear power split...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First-SHO Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 I was told by Dan at LMS it was not programmable. I will double check with him next time I am in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBoostSHO Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Does anyone have access to the electrical schemiatics for the explorer showing the wiring from the control knob to the controller? If those same pins exist on both controllers and all of the part numbers ar ethe same then in theory the only difference should/could be the software in the control module. It would be great if someone could post a picture of the schematic for further review... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash712us Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Shoman if I am not mistaken that's exactly what it's called. Also from what I've read on the other site that SCT says there is someone working on it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrylu Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 I was told by Dan at LMS it was not programmable. I will double check with him next time I am in. As I remember, Rick at first felt that "grade assist" showing up on some 4+ tuned cars was not connected with the tune. Then later an update version was sent out that removed the capability. I think they learned how to turn it on and off. Just makes one wonder.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoBoat Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 I need to get what the actual transfer case control module is called to find it on the ford parts site. #7E453(TM-254) that is the Ford part number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83racecrew Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Does anyone have access to the electrical schemiatics for the explorer showing the wiring from the control knob to the controller? If those same pins exist on both controllers and all of the part numbers ar ethe same then in theory the only difference should/could be the software in the control module. It would be great if someone could post a picture of the schematic for further review...What year Explorer? I can see if Mitchell has the wiring diagram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoBoat Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 What year Explorer? I can see if Mitchell has the wiring diagram. I would try the 2013 Explorer Sport. It is the most similar to our SHO's. that said my 2011 explorer has the same part numbers for the case and module. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83racecrew Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Being early in 13, Mitchell probably isn't going to have much info. I know they have no info about my SHO. Is the 13 Explorer the only one with this selectable traction thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash712us Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Here is what I am talking about found ford parts.com. [ATTACH]2239[/ATTACH] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash712us Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 That doesn't mean the part doesn't exist. It been my experience since with my 2011 it took a good year or more for the ford parts site to be updated with a complete parts catalog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoBoat Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 [ATTACH=CONFIG]2244[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]2245[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]2242[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]2243[/ATTACH] Ok I have attached the diagrams for the 2011 Explorer and the 2013 SHO, iThe first is for our 2011 Explorer the second is for my 2013 SHO. Gjkrisa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash712us Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Its difficult to say exactly why that is without knowing how this system is controlled. My best guess is these modules are much like body modules, where they are the same module but its the programing inside them that makes them different. And if remember correctly someone that has the shop manual for the SHO said there is described proceeder that can engage full lock up of dif coupling. So if this is so, I am assuming it done thru accessing OBDII port and coupling can be turned on or off. Just like turning on or off of a fuel injector with a scan tool. I have personally never seen this module, even when PTU was out of the car. My guess the control for this system lies in the ABS computer if thats even a separate system anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedCandySHO Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 It's also totally possibly it is right inside the PTU itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash712us Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 No its not there, I seen it all apart. No electrical connections on PTU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedCandySHO Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Hmmm....if there is no electrical connections, that leads me to believe there is no way to control the amount of power / torque transferred to the rear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBoostSHO Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 If I remember the debate in another thread isn't the PTU always engaged and the driveshaft always turning? (Or was it the other way around...I can't remember) If it is always turning and the rear wheels are engaged right before the diff (or in the rear diff?) then I would think we would be looking for electrical connection at the back of the car and not the PTU?? Totally speculating here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedCandySHO Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 I know the F-150 uses an electronic control rear differ. I wonder if the SHO is the same..... Somebody crawl under their car and look for wires on the rear diff. Gjkrisa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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