Kevin S. Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Anyone running a e85 tune on the ecoboost yet? I have seen direct injected motors run e85 with minimal mods to the fuel system (VW GTI MK6 & Cobalt SS turbo to be specific). I have only run e85 on a subaru and dsm (both required major fuel upgrades-both also had aftermarket turbos and lots of boost). What is the stock lph rating for the regular pump and DI pump, also stock fuel injector size on these motors? I'm in colorado and e85 is widely available and run by a good deal of enthusiasts - year round with no problems, tuned correctly of course. Looks like ford has run e85 on this motor before. http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Program/213/Teleseminars/Robert%20Stein%20(AVL)%203-29-11.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrming Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I have not come across anyone running E85 in any of the EcoBoosts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Posted January 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I have not come across anyone running E85 in any of the EcoBoosts.... I'm awaiting to hear back from my local tuner. He is proficient in a multitude of vehicles. He was one of the first to tune the the D/I cobalt SS. Anyone know what Livernois's stance is on an e85 tune? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulford8 Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I click that link and get a blank page. Could be my firefox, sometimes stuff doesnt work with it but does work with explorer. Anyway yeah that question as been brought up but people kinda shot it down because of the DI system. The issues raised were the high fuel pressure of the DI and the fact that E85 requires more fuel (can it put out enough volume). Also would the E85 damage anything? It is an intriguing idea. Maybe not as a run all the time but maybe as a track tune. No idea is LMS has experimented or not... They already have the timing table set pretty high with the methanol tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Posted January 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I click that link and get a blank page. Could be my firefox, sometimes stuff doesnt work with it but does work with explorer. Anyway yeah that question as been brought up but people kinda shot it down because of the DI system. The issues raised were the high fuel pressure of the DI and the fact that E85 requires more fuel (can it put out enough volume). Also would the E85 damage anything? It is an intriguing idea. Maybe not as a run all the time but maybe as a track tune. No idea is LMS has experimented or not... They already have the timing table set pretty high with the methanol tune. I fixed the link. I don't know if it can be run - i have seen other DI motors run e85 without any fuel mods. look at the cobalt ss turbo, ms3, mk6 VW gti - all run e85 without fuel mods. The only damage that i can see happening is from a "gunk" residue surfacing on the fuel injectors, hpfp and filters. In my experience with my old dsm - I changed out the fuel filter every other oil change since I was seeing such a high deposit of dirt/gunk from the ethanol cleaning out the system so well. I have heard of possible part failures related to this. Other than that possible issue I don't see what e85 can damage. E85 is cheap race gas! I have had zero problems running it on my dsm (as long as i changed out the fuel filter every other oil change). Methanol is ultimately the way to go - if you can afford it - again though I'm not sure with this ecoboost 3.5l motor. I see that you have the meth kit. How do you like it? Have you taken it to the track? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrming Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Most of us here that are running methanol, are running the Alky Control kit. It is TOP NOTCH and we all LOVE IT!!! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve142857 Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Methanol isn't that expensive. I bought a 30 gallons barrel that cost me about 300$ if my memory serves me well. I am probably the one in this forum that floors his SHO the most: 22k miles per year, at least 10 WOTs per day and 150+ runs at the drag per summer. I will be using about 40 gallons in a year. So, 40 gallons of 94 octane fuel at the gas station would cost me about 230$, so marginally the methanol costs me about 170$, let's say 200$ for a year to get about 60hp more than just a tune without meth. The kit costs around 900$ and the install depends on your mechanic skills... So it is not that expensive relatively speaking for the extra power. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mothball Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I asked Rick specifically about E85 as I have at least 3 stations within a few miles of my home. I'd love to try it. His response was that they had tried it in other cars before and did not have good luck with it. I believe that he said it was inconsistent in potency and quality (which I could see depending on the station and source of the fuel). I'd still like to try it or at least a 50/50 tune to take some of the demand off of the fuel system. My belief is that there is a huge ammount of potential with this fuel. Some of the cars that I know of that have seen simply amazing gains include N54 & N55 BMW's, Coyote 5.0 Mustangs, LS GM V8's, Subaru turbos, LNF 2.0 turbo GM's, and the killer GTR's. There's some serious hardware on that list. They don't use E85 for nothing. It works for them. I should work fine for us too! I hope... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Posted January 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Methanol isn't that expensive. I bought a 30 gallons barrel that cost me about 300$ if my memory serves me well.I am probably the one in this forum that floors his SHO the most: 22k miles per year, at least 10 WOTs per day and 150+ runs at the drag per summer. I will be using about 40 gallons in a year. So, 40 gallons of 94 octane fuel at the gas station would cost me about 230$, so marginally the methanol costs me about 170$, let's say 200$ for a year to get about 60hp more than just a tune without meth. The kit costs around 900$ and the install depends on your mechanic skills... So it is not that expensive relatively speaking for the extra power. Cheers! Good to know! I was always though pure methanol was more than ur avg race gas 98 and above. Also most motorsports seems to be making the jump to ethanol - I'm guessing govt is stepping in/better for the enviroment? http://www.americanethanolracing.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Posted January 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I asked Rick specifically about E85 as I have at least 3 stations within a few miles of my home. I'd love to try it. His response was that they had tried it in other cars before and did not have good luck with it. I believe that he said it was inconsistent in potency and quality (which I could see depending on the station and source of the fuel). I'd still like to try it or at least a 50/50 tune to take some of the demand off of the fuel system. My belief is that there is a huge ammount of potential with this fuel. Some of the cars that I know of that have seen simply amazing gains include N54 & N55 BMW's' date=' Coyote 5.0 Mustangs, LS GM V8's, Subaru turbos, LNF 2.0 turbo GM's, and the killer GTR's. There's some serious hardware on that list. They don't use E85 for nothing. It works for them. I should work fine for us too! I hope...[/quote'] Indeed! I also have seen first hand the effects of e85 - the bmw motor is also direct injected correct? As far as the quality of the e85 blend. I have run into this first hand as well - the fall/winter blends are less ethanol - since ethanol has a lower resistance to gel, however in my exp - even with the lower e60 (whatever you wanna call it). No effects on pre-detonation at high boost with lots of timing on any of the dsms or subaru that i have seen, again these vehicles are not D/I so I can't speak for the possible ill side effects of lower ethanol based e85 blends in the colder months. Hopefully my local guy gets back to me on the subject. This looks like a very good tool for e85 use http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ECA/ECA.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jomc111 Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Indeed! I also have seen first hand the effects of e85 - the bmw motor is also direct injected correct? As far as the quality oof the e85 blend. I .ve run into this first hand as well - the fall/winter blends are less ethanol - since ethanol has a lower resistance to gel, however in my exp - even with the lower e60 (whatever you wanna call it). No effects on pre-detonation at high boost with lots of timing on any of the dsms or subaru that i have seen, again these vehicles are not D/I so I can't speak for the possible ill side effects of lower ethanol based e85 blends in the colder months. Hopefully my local guy gets back to me on the subject. I run e85 in my mazdaspeed 3 which is direct injected and would love to run it in the sho because gains were insane. I can get some exact numbers on the blends from the mazda forum im on they have done an insane amount of resarch into e85 . Does anyone know how much the fuel sytem on the sho can flow and in tunning on just 93 what problem arises first knocking or not having enough fuel fr the system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mothball Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I'm sure that the only person on this board who could answer that question is Rick. My personal thought is that if the fuel system can handle the upgraded turbos that two of our members have then it should at least be able to handle the stock turbos on a 50/50 mix or so. That's only roughly 10% more fuel flow needed and I think the upgraded turbos outflow the stockers by more than that! My only worry is that maybe Livernois did max out the fuel system and compensated by using the meth injection as extra fuel. I have seen some tuners do this but to me it doesn't fit their MO. They are all about conservative safe tunes and doing what I mentioned is more of a last ditch max power tactic thus my faith in the flow capacity of the fuel system. I'd happily be a tester in the Spring for them and I'm guessing that I'd have some company as well yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Posted January 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I'm sure that the only person on this board who could answer that question is Rick. My personal thought is that if the fuel system can handle the upgraded turbos that two of our members have then it should at least be able to handle the stock turbos on a 50/50 mix or so. That's only roughly 10% more fuel flow needed and I think the upgraded turbos outflow the stockers by more than that! My only worry is that maybe Livernois did max out the fuel system and compensated by using the meth injection as extra fuel. I have seen some tuners do this but to me it doesn't fit their MO. They are all about conservative safe tunes and doing what I mentioned is more of a last ditch max power tactic thus my faith in the flow capacity of the fuel system. I'd happily be a tester in the Spring for them and I'm guessing that I'd have some company as well yes? Hopefully the limit is not the fuel system since we have 2 regular fuel pumps and the high pressure fuel pump at the rail. I'm sure there is a way around everything but it might be cost prohibitive. I have an appointment with my local tuner next week. We shall see what that leads to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowsho Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I would love to find out more about this. I ran a 3gal E85 to 9gal 93 mix in my old speed3 for about 8months and no side effects. The gains are pretty legit. I went from 290hp to 320hp to the wheels and my trap speed went from 105-110. It helps alot of KR and also run more timing. The only thing i needed to do with the speed3 was buy fuel pump internals($330) because the car stock fuel pump couldnt push out enough fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulford8 Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I see that you have the meth kit. How do you like it? Have you taken it to the track? In the drag section I have my last slip posted. 12.43 1/4 at 111, 8.0 1/8 at 90 and a 1.87 60'. If you watch the vid with my car it spins pretty much on and off through the 60'. Guys have worked down to 12.0s running methanol. I have better tires and 20" wheels to go on in the spring. I hope to work into the low 12s as others have. I cant remember what I paid for the 2 5 gallon VP methanol barrels I have. I do remember the race shape had Sunoco cheaper and they clamp it is the same as VP. I will probably try the Sunoco when mine runs out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Posted January 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 In the drag section I have my last slip posted. 12.43 1/4 at 111, 8.0 1/8 at 90 and a 1.87 60'. If you watch the vid with my car it spins pretty much on and off through the 60'. Guys have worked down to 12.0s running methanol. I have better tires and 20" wheels to go on in the spring. I hope to work into the low 12s as others have. I cant remember what I paid for the 2 5 gallon VP methanol barrels I have. I do remember the race shape had Sunoco cheaper and they clamp it is the same as VP. I will probably try the Sunoco when mine runs out. Nice time and e/t! Looks like (as i'm sure you already know) you have a low 12 once the traction is sorted! I like methanol I'm just worried about the corrosive nature of it - especially since this will be a daily driver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash712us Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 I don't believe its anymore corrosive then ethanol. Besides its contained in its own separate system and sprayed directly into throttle body, so from there its quickly sucked up and burned. But with alcohols corrosive effects in relations to metals are due to alcohols ability absorb water quickly and will rust steel fuel line and metal gas tanks from the inside out. As rubber components that aren't rated for methanol will very quickly deteriorate. But with all that said members here have been using for couple years now with no ill effects. And if you want to stop using it, just disconnect power to the system, swap out your MAP sensor and change the tune. And all can be done in the time it takes to load the new file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowsho Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Meth actually is good it cleans that bitch out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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