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Dyno Results 3-27-2012 EcoBrick Bob


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Did 7 Pulls today @ Gulf Coast Motorsports. Their dyno is a Dynojet 424xLC Linx, which I believe is the same model that is at Livernois. Justin Daniels who did the runs said it is one of about 15 in the world like it. It was a beautiful morning. Temp ranged from 74.5 to 77.2 Deg. F. HG 29.50-29.52 Humidity 40% to 42% Runs were completed between 9:48 & 10:49 AM.

Here are the Max Power & Max Torque numbers

-----------------------------Max Power----------Max Torque

Pull #1 Torrie Tune #116 354.93++++++++402.22

Pull #2 Torrie Tune #114 366.33++++++++409.44

Pull #3 Torrie Tune #115 369.44++++++++406.59

Pull #4 Torrie Tune #113 354.54++++++++391.12

Pull #5 Shifted down - deleted

Pull #6 Torrie Stock Tune (3 bar sensor) Deleted as we accidentally left W/M on... Interestingly we lost quite a bit of power and torque. As I remember Max Power was around 273 and Max torque was around 300.

Pull #7 Torrie Stock Tune 294.46++++++++332.86 Note: this tune is the same as the above ones & uses a 3 bar sensor, but has stock A/F & Boost values in the tune. A/F was a straight line & max boost was 13.10.

 

Assuming that my AWD system wastes 20% of the engine power & Torque, My Max Power would be around 460:RpS_love: & Max Torque 510.:RpS_love:

 

Not too shabby for e-mail tuning!!!!

 

THANKS!!!!!! TORRIE @ UNLEASHED TUNING

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Here are a few graphs of my Dyno Pulls.

 

First.... Stock A/F & Boost (3 Bar sensor version)

 

Moser6.jpg

 

This is the same stock tune but with W/M spraying. Note how much the spray hurts the numbers when it isn't tuned for W/M.

 

moser5.jpg

 

Torrie's printout of the two best runs, overlapping.

 

1.jpg

 

The best run overall... with the highest performance. Note how everything peaks in the 5,000 RPM range.

 

Moser3.jpg

 

I will post the actual paper printout I received from Gulf Coast Motorworks, with a boost graph sometime tomorrow. Usable boost peaked at 17.72 on this run.

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No comments??? Guess no one cares cause it isn't a Livernois Tuned vehicle.....

 

1st, stop whining attention getter....

 

People not commenting has nothing to do with one aftermarket company or another, so with all due respect EBB, don't even go there.

 

Moving along, been super busy today & I personally have been waiting for you to post the charts that you have....

 

Very cool :thumb:

 

Impressive indeed! Well at least what I can see from my smart phone...

 

Thank you for taking the time to put those up, pretty amazing how much of an actual detriment it is to have the W/M set-up, but not actually tune for it (as some members were contemplating).

 

That should be a real eye opener for those members.

 

Anyhow, impressive all the way around! Great job and hats all off to all involved in your progress and improvements.

 

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk

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Here is the paper printout of the 115 Torrie Tune.

 

Note the Power Scale is 0-400 and the Torque Scale is 0-500. The peak boost of over 22 occurred when the blow off valve opened when the Dyno Pull ended.

 

 

 

DynoPullTune115Flex3-27-12.jpg

 

Hmmm... couple of observations and untrained opinions/comments...

 

Looks like you are definitely running a bit more boost than me... Also looks like you are running quite a bit leaner. Not sure how much W/M you are spraying... Have you logged your lambda values on a good WOT run? Here is my data log from a hard WOT run... I put the cursor on about 5500 RPM in 3rd gear. I'm only at 13.5 PSI and my AFR is 10.85 but the lambda is .74. Stock lambda target for 5500 is .75. So I'm slightly richer than stock at that RPM but also running more boost...

 

race_tune2.jpg

 

 

Again, this is just my uneducated, casual observation... that and a $1.00 will buy you any size drink at McDonalds...

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Only reason I went there is that I have gotten a great deal more attention and comments regarding this thread on SHO Forum... And I posted the charts here first....

 

My ONLY complaint I have with this site is that it updates several times a day, and many threads just plain get lost. Twice, my thread disappeared within 30 minutes of me adding comments or the charts. I've asked the administrator twice about some way to change this, but it hasn't happened. The G8 & more forum - GRRRR8.Net uses the same exact platform for it's website Forum, and it doesn't happen over there. Of course, they have about 3-5 pages of active threads that have postings within the last 24 hrs. Ideally, if the threads could stay open for 24 hrs after the last posting, we would have a lot more activity, and possibly more posters.

 

Note... I have numerous complaints with other sites, just like you did, and I don't have any of those issues here. This is a great site... and posters are very respectful of others, except for me!

 

And. also..... Torrie didn't like the format of the Dyno testing... wants me to do it again with some revision to tuning, with him orchestrating the runs via phone or e-mail, which he is convinced will get me considerably better results.. Maybe he forgot I was doing the Dyno Pulls, but I guess I should have reminded him, so he could have had more input.

 

I'm a newbee with the Dyno thing... But... All in All, it was a great experience.... Only cost $132.50 for everything. So I guess I could afford to do it again. Also their Hourly rate for cam & converter installations (or any mechanical work) is only $110. per Hr. That's very reasonable down here.

 

So I have been a GRUMPY OLD FART the last couple days.....

 

Thread don't get lost.... it just knows that you've displayed them before and stops displaying them under "New Posts"! I'm think your issues are perhaps "User Error". If you want to see more posts then don't use the "New Posts" button. Go to "Quick Links" and hit "Today's Posts". That will give you more threads...

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Here are the Max Power & Max Torque numbers.

Max Power Max Torque

Pull #1 Torrie Tune #116 354.93 402.22

Pull #2 Torrie Tune #114 366.33 409.44

Pull #3 Torrie Tune #115 369.44 406.59

Pull #4 Torrie Tune #113 354.54 391.12

Pull #5 Shifted down - deleted

Pull #6 Torrie Stock Tune (3 bar sensor) Deleted as we accidentally left W/M on... Interestingly we lost quite a bit of power and torque. As I remember Max Power was around 273 and Max torque was around 300.

Pull #7 Torrie Stock Tune 294.46 332.86 Note: this tune is the same as the above ones & uses a 3 bar sensor, but has stock A/F & Boost values in the tune. A/F was a straight line & max boost was 13.10.

 

 

Bob,

 

Very nice impressive!!!

 

Runs 1 to 4 was with W/M? What was the ratio of H2O to Methanol?

What are the factors that has the boost steadily sloped downwards from your max of 17.72?

 

Thanks,

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Only reason I went there is that I have gotten a great deal more attention and comments regarding this thread on (edited) Forum... And I posted the charts here first....

 

My ONLY complaint I have with this site is that it updates several times a day, and many threads just plain get lost.

 

Twice, my thread disappeared within 30 minutes of me adding comments or the charts.

 

I've asked the administrator twice about some way to change this, but it hasn't happened.

 

Ideally, if the threads could stay open for 24 hrs after the last posting, we would have a lot more activity, and possibly more posters.

 

Note... I have numerous complaints with other sites, just like you did, and I don't have any of those issues here.

 

This is a great site... and posters are very respectful of others, except for me!

 

So I have been a GRUMPY OLD FART the last couple days.....

 

Eh..... *sigh* you have been a lil on the grumpy side as of late, no offense, but I'm sure I'm not the only one that has noticed it.

 

2nd, you bring up legitimate points in regards to how EB Forums SHOULD be running and this is the 1st I am hearing of it.

 

Regardless, my original comment still applies and lack of comments to your dyno results still has nothing to do with other members here preferring one vendor over another.

 

Both companies you mention are great supporters not only of the SHO/EcoBoost platform, but both are great supporting vendors here.

 

That being said, I will try to get a hold of ADMIN myself with your suggestions and see what can be done to correct the deficiencies you made mention of....

 

Bob, just like with other issues we've had here previously (and were corrected), understand that EB Forums is still young in age, approaching the 4 month old stage at this point/date.

 

Try getting a hold of me or Colin 1st with future issues that you may come across, and we'll each do what we can on our end to correct those accordingly.

 

Pitting one vendor against another is just not fair my friend. To you, them, or other members for that matter.

 

Chalk it up to growing pains and we'll keep getting the bugs worked out. We appreciate your involvement here, and your posts, so let's keep it above board my friend :thumb:

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Our target Lambda has been .8... some tuners go for even higher A/F ratios in boosted situations, if you can make sure it doesn't get out of line. Realize most N.A. vehicles are running 12.5-13.5 A/F, depending on fuel Octane etc.

 

I log every WOT run and always check the Lambda. Also look at what is happening with my MCT (Manifold Charge Temp) which is a good indication of how effective one's W/M is working. I am now using a # 10 nozzle (same as Darrell) and at least a 75% methanol spray. My leanest part of the runs is over 4,500... The Dyno operator, who is also a tuner, commented that he thought I was running way too rich below 4,500. The red line he was using is a 12.0 to 1 A/F. He also stated that my A/F ratio was just about perfect on all of the pulls when we were over 4,500 rpm.

 

I haven't been graphing my runs... I just read the logs and look for variances I don't like to see. Probably the most important thing I look at is FRP Fuel Rail Pressure in conjunction with Lambda. Even with my BAP (Boost A Pump), I get a considerable drop off. This is one of the big weaknesses in the EB design, in regards to adding HP. As for the benefits of a BAP, I would say the "seat of the pants" number I am seeing is about 200-300 PSI. Obviously the W/M spray helps keep the Lambda numbers in check, even when FRP goes low.

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The big question is' date=' were the guys at Gulf Coast Motorsports surprised? Shocked? In awe? Or we're they expecting it?[/quote']

 

They knew I had turned 3 runs in the 12's. They were very impressed... Not so much in awe as they had several vehicles in the shop that would "cream" my pulls. Sales manager had a Pontiac Bonneville SSEI that he got into the 12.9s so he understood what was necessary. They did say... it was the first Flex they had on Dyno. Beautiful shop and bldg. you could eat off the floor. Their main business is restoration. They had at least 15 Deloreans sitting inside and outside. A Supra Turbo that was putting out over 600 hp at the wheels was waiting for a clutch... Tuner said it spins thru the first 3 gears at about 1/2 throttle... Had a carbon fiber hood.

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Our target Lambda has been .8... some tuners go for even higher A/F ratios in boosted situations, if you can make sure it doesn't get out of line. Realize most N.A. vehicles are running 12.5-13.5 A/F, depending on fuel Octane etc.

 

I log every WOT run and always check the Lambda. Also look at what is happening with my MCT (Manifold Charge Temp) which is a good indication of how effective one's W/M is working. I am now using a # 10 nozzle (same as Darrell) and at least a 75% methanol spray. My leanest part of the runs is over 4,500... The Dyno operator, who is also a tuner, commented that he thought I was running way too rich below 4,500. The red line he was using is a 12.0 to 1 A/F. He also stated that my A/F ratio was just about perfect on all of the pulls when we were over 4,500 rpm.

 

I haven't been graphing my runs... I just read the logs and look for variances I don't like to see. Probably the most important thing I look at is FRP Fuel Rail Pressure in conjunction with Lambda. Even with my BAP (Boost A Pump), I get a considerable drop off. This is one of the big weaknesses in the EB design, in regards to adding HP. As for the benefits of a BAP, I would say the "seat of the pants" number I am seeing is about 200-300 PSI. Obviously the W/M spray helps keep the Lambda numbers in check, even when FRP goes low.

 

What we found with DI motors is they tend to actually like to run a bit on the richer side...For example my V6 Camaro with the 3.6L DI LLT motor ran crazy rich... but turns out as soon as you try to lean it out, you would actually lose power! So I think possibly what was typical values might not be the best values anymore... but again... just me thinking out loud...

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You may be right. If so... the DI pump is an even weaker link. The other possibility is that their wide band goes in the tailpipe, where our Lambda readings are just downstream from the engine. I know that when I was installing wide bands in both my G8's, we needed to put the sensor in front of the cats.

 

Not sure how much the BAP helps throughout the RPM range, but if one were to put a higher volume fuel pump in the tank, it will be relatively easy, as the access panel is just behind the passenger side middle bucket seat. I've been in there.....

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If they are using a tail sniffer after 2 cats that is gauranteed reading leaner that a pre-cat 02 sensor. If your logged afr is where you want it to be or not then that's obviously what you/Torrie would be most concerned about.

Nice pulls Bob. Looking forward to more results after some revisions.

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If they are using a tail sniffer after 2 cats that is gauranteed reading leaner that a pre-cat 02 sensor. If your logged afr is where you want it to be or not then that's obviously what you/Torrie would be most concerned about.

Nice pulls Bob. Looking forward to more results after some revisions.

 

Main thing with the W/M is to look at the Lambda values, not the AFR... but agreed, on the tail sniffer...

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Only reason I went there is that I have gotten a great deal more attention and comments regarding this thread on SHO Forum... And I posted the charts here first.... My ONLY complaint I have with this site is that it updates several times a day' date=' and many threads just plain get lost. [b']Twice, my thread disappeared within 30 minutes of me adding comments or the charts. I've asked the administrator twice about some way to change this, but it hasn't happened.[/b] The G8 & more forum - GRRRR8.Net uses the same exact platform for it's website Forum, and it doesn't happen over there. Of course, they have about 3-5 pages of active threads that have postings within the last 24 hrs. Ideally, if the threads could stay open for 24 hrs after the last posting, we would have a lot more activity, and possibly more posters.Note... I have numerous complaints with other sites, just like you did, and I don't have any of those issues here. This is a great site... and posters are very respectful of others, except for me!And. also..... Torrie didn't like the format of the Dyno testing... wants me to do it again with some revision to tuning, with him orchestrating the runs via phone or e-mail, which he is convinced will get me considerably better results.. Maybe he forgot I was doing the Dyno Pulls, but I guess I should have reminded him, so he could have had more input. I'm a newbee with the Dyno thing... But... All in All, it was a great experience.... Only cost $132.50 for everything. So I guess I could afford to do it again. Also their Hourly rate for cam & converter installations (or any mechanical work) is only $110. per Hr. That's very reasonable down here.So I have been a GRUMPY OLD FART the last couple days.....
I have looked into this problem and to be completely honest I just didn't understand what the issue was. If you want to see new posts click "quick links" and then "todays posts". That will bring you to all the new posts from today. I also don't really understand that the forum doesn't look "active". If a Guest clicks on a section they will see all the threads arranged in date format. (The ones with the newest replies are first). I am registered on probably 75+ forums and this one is no different from any of them.

 

As far as pitting one sponsor against another I don't think that is necessary. Unleashed and Livernois became sponsors at about the same time. I hope both of the business' succeed equally and they can continue to provide innovation for the EcoBoost platform. From my observation Livernois appears to be a much larger operation with a lot more effort into advertising. Taking that into consideration one would think your going to see the majority of end users running their tunes. You cannot get upset because people chose a different vendor. I'm sure anyone will be happy with a tune from either company.

 

Last, I apologize for not getting to this sooner. I have a nasty cold at the moment so my time was spent yesterday trying to recover.

 

On a lighter note...TGIF:RpS_cool:.

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I have looked into this problem and to be completely honest I just didn't understand what the issue was. If you want to see new posts click "quick links" and then "todays posts". That will bring you to all the new posts from today. I also don't really understand that the forum doesn't look "active". If a Guest clicks on a section they will see all the threads arranged in date format. (The ones with the newest replies are first). I am registered on probably 75+ forums and this one is no different from any of them.

 

As far as pitting one sponsor against another I don't think that is necessary. Unleashed and Livernois became sponsors at about the same time. I hope both of the business' succeed equally and they can continue to provide innovation for the EcoBoost platform. From my observation Livernois appears to be a much larger operation with a lot more effort into advertising. Taking that into consideration one would think your going to see the majority of end users running their tunes. You cannot get upset because people chose a different vendor. I'm sure anyone will be happy with a tune from either company.

 

Last, I apologize for not getting to this sooner. I have a nasty cold at the moment so my time was spent yesterday trying to recover.

 

On a lighter note...TGIF:RpS_cool:.

 

Hope you feel better soon! ;)

 

As for me... busy day yesterday and replied after I had a chance to review everything that was posted and the data on my PC at home....

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I have looked into this problem and to be completely honest I just didn't understand what the issue was. If you want to see new posts click "quick links" and then "todays posts". That will bring you to all the new posts from today. I also don't really understand that the forum doesn't look "active". If a Guest clicks on a section they will see all the threads arranged in date format. (The ones with the newest replies are first). I am registered on probably 75+ forums and this one is no different from any of them.

 

As far as pitting one sponsor against another I don't think that is necessary. Unleashed and Livernois became sponsors at about the same time. I hope both of the business' succeed equally and they can continue to provide innovation for the EcoBoost platform. From my observation Livernois appears to be a much larger operation with a lot more effort into advertising. Taking that into consideration one would think your going to see the majority of end users running their tunes. You cannot get upset because people chose a different vendor. I'm sure anyone will be happy with a tune from either company.

 

Last, I apologize for not getting to this sooner. I have a nasty cold at the moment so my time was spent yesterday trying to recover.

 

On a lighter note...TGIF:RpS_cool:.

 

Scrming pointed out to me that I was always clicking on "New Posts"... Have always done that on sites that use that format header. Guess I have been wrong... As for pitting one advertiser against another, I have gone out of my way to be fair to both Livernois and Unleashed Tuning. Since I have worked with both... I likely have a better idea of the pro's and con's. Relative to that I try to emphasize the positive. They are indeed very different operations & both are first-class in what they offer. I apologize for any issues or problems I have caused.

 

Is there a tutorial on how to get the most out of the Forum links etc.?

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Hope you feel better soon! ;)

 

As for me... busy day yesterday and replied after I had a chance to review everything that was posted and the data on my PC at home....

 

Knew you were awaiting the graphs and other data... Was just surprised others had no questions. I always have questions.... too many I guess!

 

Just an "old dog"... attempting to learn new tricks, and figure out why I'm doing it at the same time.

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Is there a tutorial on how to get the most out of the Forum links etc.?

 

I pondered your question with great detail EBB, trying to figure out if you were being light hearted and joking, or serious.

 

I'll go out on a limb and presume (not assume) that you're being serious and my answer to you would be....

 

Not that I am aware of.

 

Like most other communities I've joined (this one included) I've learned by just trolling around, etc etc.

 

Not sure if this is the reply you're desiring, but it's the best I can give 'ya :thumb:

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I pondered your question with great detail EBB, trying to figure out if you were being light hearted and joking, or serious.

 

I'll go out on a limb and presume (not assume) that you're being serious and my answer to you would be....

 

Not that I am aware of.

 

Like most other communities I've joined (this one included) I've learned by just trolling around, etc etc.

 

Not sure if this is the reply you're desiring, but it's the best I can give 'ya :thumb:

 

Not sure "trolling" is the best choice of words! ;) LOL!

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