EcoBrick Bob Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Sorry, no offense to any mechanics out there! Basically cars have been coming with only narrow band O2 sensors for years and years. They are cheaper and they get the job done. So a lot of people just simply assume their new Fords just had the plain old standard narrow bands... But then Ford start putting in widebands! So now instead of having to install a 3rd sensor like you mentioned, I can simply plug in my DashHawk (odb reader) and I can monitor my AFR. I have my DashHawk mounted with Velcro in front of my Tach.... Monitor A/F, Boost, engine temp, & IAT temp in the split screen. Vary it some, but this gives me a good idea of what is happening in normal driving.... While having a set of gauges would be really great... if we had the place for them like the SHO... it is really hard to watch them when you are at the strip, or running some guy on the street... Much easier to watch the DashHawk. Ideally would be the new gadget that Livernois sells... with the big 4" screen that you can stick in your view while driving, like I do with my Garmin by A-post, that becomes my digital Speedo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO U UP Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Don't go with a narrow band unless you only want a "light show" and to throw money away. For proper tuning and making sure everything is in check with air/fuel, go with a wide band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBrick Bob Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Definitely go with wide band gauge... I have set them up on my G8's (Innovate systems) with bung on header.... Luckily.... our EB Motors already have them integrate into the system. Not sure how you hook them up... other that thru OBDII port, but I'm sure there is a way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoolin823 Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Hhmmm....just finished reading the first page of the first article and it raises a few questions. It states that stoic or 1.0 may mean 14.7 lbs of air. I would if that is really what it means' date=' because it seems strange that 14.7 is the theoretic air pressure at sea level. I wonder if the article means that for idea mixture it needs 14.7 lbs of air pressure or really 14.7 lbs. of air? I will read on. I do find this very interesting...thanks for posting the links. I actually understand this...has something to do with diving, mixed gas, partial pressures of gas, etc![/quote'] You are confusing stoich and manifold pressure stoich or 14.7 is the AFR or air fuel ratio of complete combustion. Higher than this is lean and lower is rich. But with forced induction at higher rpms and higher boost you have to keep the afr's anywhere from 11 to 1 to 13 to be safe. the leaner the AFR is, the hotter the EGT's will be because there will be less fuel to cool the motor. Most modern cars idle super lean for better gas efficiency and to warm up faster. The richer a fuel mixture is causes a safer environment but your car may run horrible because you are using alot of unburnt fuel and you will have backfires and hesitations and such. This is why tuning is so important in modern vehicles with fuel injection. With a Forced Induction vehicle you must match the boost with the fuel and spark to optimize the combination to get massive power out of an engine with a smaller displacement running a lower compression ratio or it could be catastrophic to your motor. To really understand it you must see or actually tune in person. Continue to read more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air%E2%80%93fuel_ratio 1bar or 14.5 psi is boost or a unit of pressure inside the intake manifold when not in vaccum. Just remember when tuning a car there are 3 things. CHEAP, FAST, AND RELIABLE and you only get 2 of these. Hope this helps you understand a little more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjhpadi Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Thanks for info and link, I haven't had a chance to study it yet but will do that later this week...thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpd1151 Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Thanks (or maybe not as it looks like I may be changing my order yet again)...... But anyhow, Scrming's info has led to addt'l behind the scenes discussion with my mechanic pal and one of his friends over at Ford. That person then placed an inquiry to one of Ford's actual Engineer's on the EcoBoost powerplant. Long story short, Scrming was/is correct, the AFR I SHOULD'VE ORDERED SHOULD'VE BEEN A "WIDEBAND" AFR. Now this would be a doable scenario, but I'd be obligated to have an exhaust shop weld in a new bung for the extra sensor, again no big deal. However, the bottom line is, I still don't know if the actual range would be what the gauge would be able to read..... Gggrr..... Question, for those running those fancy iTsx's, or other devices, any of you have any experiences in what the general range(s) may be when you're monitoring the Air/Fuel ratios? Open to suggestions at this point, as far as perhaps ditching the AFR all together and going with an entirely separate gauge for the 3rd slot, but idk :noidea: Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrming Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Thanks (or maybe not as it looks like I may be changing my order yet again)...... But anyhow, Scrming's info has led to addt'l behind the scenes discussion with my mechanic pal and one of his friends over at Ford. That person then placed an inquiry to one of Ford's actual Engineer's on the EcoBoost powerplant. Long story short, Scrming was/is correct, the AFR I SHOULD'VE ORDERED SHOULD'VE BEEN A "WIDEBAND" AFR. Now this would be a doable scenario, but I'd be obligated to have an exhaust shop weld in a new bung for the extra sensor, again no big deal. However, the bottom line is, I still don't know if the actual range would be what the gauge would be able to read..... Gggrr..... Question, for those running those fancy iTsx's, or other devices, any of you have any experiences in what the general range(s) may be when you're monitoring the Air/Fuel ratios? Open to suggestions at this point, as far as perhaps ditching the AFR all together and going with an entirely separate gauge for the 3rd slot, but idk :noidea: Thoughts? Devices like it iTsx or the DashHawk, are really just relaying the info from the stock sensors and ECU... so the devices themselves aren't truly monitoring things... they are basically just displaying what the car's ECU is seeing... as far as range, since they are using the stock sensors I think you would be more than fine... Only thing about these devices of course is you need to have them plugged into your ODB port to work... So for like the Dashhawk I do have the cable running across the dash when I'm using it... no big deal for me... However there are some pretty cool setups using wireless ODB units that can then send the data to your smartphone! The other thing about these ODB devices, at least on the DashHawk, you can also monitor Lambda... which, seems to be important if you ever do anything like water/meth injection... And for me the other cool thing on the Dashhawk is the ability to set up alerts, so you get the nice big blinking screen when things aren't where you expect them to be! (see above video! LOL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjhpadi Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Well, I am thinking of maybe either the Ford Racing gauges or the AutoMeter Elite series, boost gauge, oil pressure, but still undecided about the 3rd gauge...but I am thinking the AFR may look pretty good in the pod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saucemaxx Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 #13 installed and happy! That is all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash712us Posted February 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Awesome!!! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO U UP Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Is anyone having issues seeing the gauges since they are facing dead center? I installed my gauges last week and I'm going to install the Autometer side angle rings to see if that helps. I used the Autometer Cobalt gauges similar to the ones I had in my Gen 3. I'll post up pics soon as I get them on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpd1151 Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Interested in hearing about these angle ring things..... Never knew they were available. Post info on that too when you can. I would imagine in theory, that having the gauges slightly angled towards the driver may be a better scenario. Look'n forward to your follow up post(s). Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjhpadi Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 I know the early generations of the Datsun 240/260 had the center gauges angled toward the driver. It was a nice touch and made it easy to read the gauges in a quick glance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjhpadi Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Here is some info on the angle rings-this link will take you to AutoMeter's page showing the rings: http://www.autometer.com/cat_mounts.aspx?sid=54 This link is to the instruction booklet on how to mount the rings: http://www.autometer.com/productPDF/2650-878X-10rA.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO U UP Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Here is some info on the angle rings-this link will take you to AutoMeter's page showing the rings: http://www.autometer.com/cat_mounts.aspx?sid=54 This link is to the instruction booklet on how to mount the rings: http://www.autometer.com/productPDF/2650-878X-10rA.pdf ^Yup, that's the ones I have. I need to modify the rings a little to fit on the pod since they touch when all three of them are on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash712us Posted February 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Me personally I do not. But you could probably achieve a slight amount of tilt in gauges by trimming some material out the side of the holes so the gauges can tilt side ways a bit, then trim the mounting straps or cups so they are on a angle too. I would think this would give you a sufficient amount of tilt. But I will go one further for you SHO U UP, I have a cast that didn't come out so well and for the cost of shipping it could be yours. That way you can fool around with this, and won't do something to your pod that can't be undone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpd1151 Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Chris step'n up to the plate YET AGAIN for his fellow SHO owner's ..... :thumb: Boy, and to think some admin/mod staff in other communities mistakenly characterized him as an elitist..... still unbelievable even to this day. Way to go Chris! Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash712us Posted February 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Oh Stop, your making me blush. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjhpadi Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 What???? There's another SHO Forum out there?:RpS_confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpd1151 Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Not sure Mark what you refer to as "another"? I never cited any specific site. We here at the great EB welcome ALL models built by FMC employing the EcoBoost powerplant. That's what defines us as a family, and will continue to separate us from "other" communities, no matter what they may title themselves. I for one am glad this new found home was created :thumb: Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjhpadi Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Mike I was referring to the less then friendlier place most of us stumbled across before coming here. I echo your sentiments about this website. I am really greatful to those involved in building this one and am glad to call this home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash712us Posted February 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Everything happens for reason guys, if it wasn't for that other place we may have never found all these fine folks we have now. So let that other site draw'em in then crap all over them and they come here and see what a great forum we have here. Not bring up the pasts but I still have unread messages to mods and admins over there and my thread was suppose to be restored and it is still lost in limbo. No regrets though, much better off now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpd1151 Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Good God this is turning into a fiasco........ Anyhow, I guess there's no tap in for the fuel fitting or w/e..... so I'm scrapping the AFR gauge altogether at this point. I'm gonna stay with pyrometer/egt gauge, but I will be re-ordering that part # as well, as I expressed my desire to have all three gauges to be matching, and have each of them to be from the Ford Racing Series line of gauges. As of today, it looks like my final order will be the following gauges, all from Autometer, and all are/will be the FRS line of gauges. Boost Gauge; P/N 880074 Pyrometer/EGT Gauge; P/N 880078 Trans Temp Gauge; P/N 880314 (and short sending unit P/N 2259) Total out the door price for all three of the above is just shy of $600.00 USD :doh: I was trying to avoid that $600 thresh hold, but damn, damn, damn...... hope it's worth the expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrming Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Good God this is turning into a fiasco........ Anyhow, I guess there's no tap in for the fuel fitting or w/e..... so I'm scrapping the AFR gauge altogether at this point. I'm gonna stay with pyrometer/egt gauge, but I will be re-ordering that part # as well, as I expressed my desire to have all three gauges to be matching, and have each of them to be from the Ford Racing Series line of gauges. As of today, it looks like my final order will be the following gauges, all from Autometer, and all are/will be the FRS line of gauges. Boost Gauge; P/N 880074 Pyrometer/EGT Gauge; P/N 880078 Trans Temp Gauge; P/N 880314 (and short sending unit P/N 2259) Total out the door price for all three of the above is just shy of $600.00 USD :doh: I was trying to avoid that $600 thresh hold, but damn, damn, damn...... hope it's worth the expense. Yep, not surprised on the fuel fitting, since the EB motor is DI and the fuel rails have some crazy PSI going on... however not sure comment about AFR? ok... so i had to look up w/e... LOL! So there is no way to tap into the stock Wideband O2 sensor wiring? And yes... not for the faint of heart.... amazing how simple things quickly $$$$... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash712us Posted February 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'm a bit confused Mike, by your statement. "I guess there's no tap in for the fuel fitting or w/e." I was under the impression that AFR gauge just require the installation of a O2 sensor. But any how the new line up of gauges will be just as nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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