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Who'll be 1st to the 11's in 2012?


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Man, I can't imagine getting one of these beasts flying in the 11's!!! Best of luck to all of you pushing the limits for all of us to benefit from ultimately!

 

Can the transmission and t-case hold all this??? Is that where everyone expects to see the first failures? Has anyone seen tranny failures with tunes and other mods in general yet???

 

Cheers!

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Wish you luck Mike! Will the new Turbos require a 3 bar sensor? Are you changing any engine internals like forged rods & pistons? Any plans for more fuel? BAP is easy to add' date=' and I found it to be helpful, though not a complete solution to maintaining DI FRP. Assume you will be deleting ALL cats. What kind of tires or DR's are you planning?[/quote']HA Bob I am a electricain not engine mech, what is a BAP, WHAT 3BAR SENSOR, and DI FRP are you maintaining?:noidea::RpS_huh:
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HA Bob I am a electricain not engine mech' date=' what is a BAP, WHAT 3BAR SENSOR, and DI FRP are you maintaining?:noidea::RpS_huh:[/quote']

 

I can answer that for you...

 

BAP - Boost a Pump - made by Kenne Bell. It increases the voltage to your fuel pump thus increasing volume. My opinion is still out. I say this because the DI - Direct Injection - pump can only pump what it can pump. It's mechanical and runs off the camshaft. I personally haven't had any real fuel issues and my car is tuned to run rich 10.8 (which is around the factory air/fuel ratio.

FRP- Fuel Rail Pressure - I think that's pretty self explanatory but direct injected cars have high fuel rail pressures around 2000 psi.

MAP- Manifold Absolute Pressure - a couple different ways to explain this and it's quite lengthy, when I get to work i'll post something a little deeper unless Bob chimes in first. Depending on the amount of boost you're running the stock 2 bar sensor may need to be replaced so that the ECU can still pick up a correct signal..I know that's vague and I'll work on explaining it better when I'm at work today..

 

Hope that atleast helps for now

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HA Bob I am a electricain not engine mech' date=' what is a BAP, WHAT 3BAR SENSOR, and DI FRP are you maintaining?:noidea::RpS_huh:[/quote']

 

What I would like to know is: WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING UP AT 3:11 AM?????? LOL

 

My A/F ratio is pretty similar to Darrell's. Max's out at around .82 Lambda but is usually at .80 for most of the WOT runs. Where I have seen my FRP # drop from a high of 2,400 PSI to as low as 1,000 PSI is when my boost is peaking in 2nd gear around 50 mph range. But... due to Methanol spray, the lambda doesn't go up. So... FRP at that level may not be an issue, but definitely something to watch. A BAP is a way to increase fuel delivery to the DI pump, to make sure the pressure drop isn't just due to lack of fuel. From the logging we have done, I would say it helps an estimated 200 PSI, but that is just a "seat of the pants" estimate. Ideally, to maintain adequate FRP would be a higher volume DI pump combined with a high volume (Walbro or similar) in tank pump.

 

The 3 bar sensor can accurately measure Boost up to around 29 PSI, where a 2 bar sensor can only measure accurately up to 14.7 PSI. The number I look at to determine boost is "TIP" in the SCT Logging software. To determine boost levels, you take the TIP # and subtract 15 (1 bar), and then divide the remaining amount by 2. So... a 60 TIP would be a boost level of 15. 64 = 17 PSI & so on. There are ways to be exact, but this is the easiest way at least for me to see where my boost levels are.

 

What I found interesting, is that our sensors can measure different things. For instance, the 3 bar MAPv sensor that replaces the 2 bar MAPv sensor in the top of the intake, is identical (part #) to the MCT sensor that is located on the side of the Intake tube, just in front of the Throttle Body.

 

And FYI... two years ago... I didn't understand any of this terminology period.... so go to sleep!!!!! LOL

 

To me... the fact that all of us can discuss or banter over these things, helps all of us. Never want to stop learning.....

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I can answer that for you...

 

BAP - Boost a Pump - made by Kenne Bell. It increases the voltage to your fuel pump thus increasing volume. My opinion is still out. I say this because the DI - Direct Injection - pump can only pump what it can pump. It's mechanical and runs off the camshaft. I personally haven't had any real fuel issues and my car is tuned to run rich 10.8 (which is around the factory air/fuel ratio.

FRP- Fuel Rail Pressure - I think that's pretty self explanatory but direct injected cars have high fuel rail pressures around 2000 psi.

MAP- Manifold Absolute Pressure - a couple different ways to explain this and it's quite lengthy, when I get to work i'll post something a little deeper unless Bob chimes in first. Depending on the amount of boost you're running the stock 2 bar sensor may need to be replaced so that the ECU can still pick up a correct signal..I know that's vague and I'll work on explaining it better when I'm at work today..

 

Hope that atleast helps for now

 

 

Man, I can't imagine getting one of these beasts flying in the 11's!!! Best of luck to all of you pushing the limits for all of us to benefit from ultimately!

 

Can the transmission and t-case hold all this??? Is that where everyone expects to see the first failures? Has anyone seen tranny failures with tunes and other mods in general yet???

 

Cheers!

 

 

Yes 3-bar will be needed.

 

After LMS tore down the engine they indicated everything was stout except maybe the pistons and they have a fix for that. I will not be doing anything with them unless we break.

 

Dan said should have plenty of fuel. Have never come close to running out of fuel with either Darrell or myself.

 

All cats will be gone.

 

I will be running Forgestar F14's 20 x 9.5 all around with Nitto Invo 275/40-20's.

 

All discussions indicate mid to low 11's with this setup. Will see.

 

Mike

 

 

Nice try EcoBob, but my turbos are in and the major install of the mods to be installed next week at LMS. I trust Darrell will be in the 11's first :hail:. Well deserved, but I am expecting mid 11's with what is going in. Won't get to the track till later. Darrell will be running the same as me as soon as it is available to the public. He is a good friend and I will not keep this awesome mod to myself, oh and Mike as well :bounce:.

 

We are entering into possible breaking areas, and I am willing to take the risk. We will be pushing the limits of these cars and I am looking forward to the challenge.

 

I will post pics during the installation and all results in power, thanks to Rick I hope. :cheer2:

 

As soon as we get all the bugs worked out and "my turbo guy's feel comfortable" it will be available through LMS.

 

I will thank my turbo guy's by name later when we have this done and they would prefer going through LMS.

 

See you in the 10's! :first:

 

Mike

Thanks Darreli,As a old (12yrs old in late 60's) gearhead I love reading about fast cars and engines. The only real mechenic skills me and my dad had was take a part off and put a new one on. You & First-SHO are making me & all the other guy here down right jealous. Fueld13 I read that the Haldex 5thGEN AWD will handle up to about 1500kw in torque about 700pft and GM DESIGN 6F55(FORD) 6T-75(GM) for 315hp and up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM-Ford_6-speed_automatic_transmission the automat in the G8 GPX (415HP) IS a 6T-75 and LMS has a lot more hp out of their LS1 than 415hp I don't know if its auto/man. So AWD will handle it if it 5htGEN Haldex. The trans, well how much is "and up"?. Does anybody know if we have the 5thGEN Haldex or is it a in house FORD design?
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What I would like to know is: WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING UP AT 3:11 AM?????? LOL

 

My A/F ratio is pretty similar to Darrell's. Max's out at around .82 Lambda but is usually at .80 for most of the WOT runs. Where I have seen my FRP # drop from a high of 2,400 PSI to as low as 1,000 PSI is when my boost is peaking in 2nd gear around 50 mph range. But... due to Methanol spray, the lambda doesn't go up. So... FRP at that level may not be an issue, but definitely something to watch. A BAP is a way to increase fuel delivery to the DI pump, to make sure the pressure drop isn't just due to lack of fuel. From the logging we have done, I would say it helps an estimated 200 PSI, but that is just a "seat of the pants" estimate. Ideally, to maintain adequate FRP would be a higher volume DI pump combined with a high volume (Walbro or similar) in tank pump.

 

The 3 bar sensor can accurately measure Boost up to around 29 PSI, where a 2 bar sensor can only measure accurately up to 14.7 PSI. The number I look at to determine boost is "TIP" in the SCT Logging software. To determine boost levels, you take the TIP # and subtract 15 (1 bar), and then divide the remaining amount by 2. So... a 60 TIP would be a boost level of 15. 64 = 17 PSI & so on. There are ways to be exact, but this is the easiest way at least for me to see where my boost levels are.

 

What I found interesting, is that our sensors can measure different things. For instance, the 3 bar MAPv sensor that replaces the 2 bar MAPv sensor in the top of the intake, is identical (part #) to the MCT sensor that is located on the side of the Intake tube, just in front of the Throttle Body.

 

And FYI... two years ago... I didn't understand any of this terminology period.... so go to sleep!!!!! LOL

 

To me... the fact that all of us can discuss or banter over these things, helps all of us. Never want to stop learning.....

 

Bob I work nights I get off at 1:30am and home about 2:30am (Iknow were every 24hr store is on the way home:) LOL) I was just finishing my 2nd GEARS show on the DVR :thumb: I thank You and Darreli for the knowledge now I'll have to read darreli's defenission read your use read Darreli read You 3 or 4 time before I understand what you said.:doh::RpS_confused::thumb: But I'll learn I may be a OLD CAT(not dog, GA TECH man not GA bulldog) but I can learn new a trick or two still.LOL

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  • 2 months later...

Maybe after I install my catless down pipes and convince Rick to give me the same tune file that FirstSHO is running....

 

Besides, I am aware of at least one 2010 owner running the same psi settings (as FirstSHO) on the stock turbo's.... so you may be right :thumb:

 

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

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Bob I work nights I get off at 1:30am and home about 2:30am (Iknow were every 24hr store is on the way home:) LOL) I was just finishing my 2nd GEARS show on the DVR :thumb: I thank You and Darreli for the knowledge now I'll have to read darreli's defenission read your use read Darreli read You 3 or 4 time before I understand what you said.:doh::RpS_confused::thumb: But I'll learn I may be a OLD CAT(not dog' date=' GA TECH man not GA bulldog) but I can learn new a trick or two still.LOL[/quote']

 

I suggest you also read an early thread I started on here... It lists several articles on W/M and how it works.

 

There are 2 schools of thought on using Methanol... One says the simpler the better... IE.. the type of system I use, which is either on or off. The other uses a progressive controller to add spray based on RPM & boost levels. While the second definitely is better if it is fine tuned by both a Dyno tune as well as the user modifying spray levels based on temp... humidity... and other variables, it is much more complex and really needs a user who could do tuning themselves. So.. if you live near Detroit, and are a sophisticated racer/tuner like Scrming, or First SHO, or Darreli, you go with the more complex system, and you will ultimately be faster.

 

But if you aren't one of those things, a system like Torries, will still give you 40 to 50 hp gains relative to stock with tune, and you will still be very fast. Even if you were tuned to spray just plain water at 150 psi, you would see a noticeable increase ( maybe 30 hp) if tuned for it's cooling properties.

 

But.... if you spray, you have to be tuned for it to get the potential performance benefits. Not tuning for spray will actually give you slower times, but you will have the security/safety of running cooler. So spray is still good if you aren't tuned...

 

I will point out that too much spray at low RPM is not good... it can cause your engine to not fire properly, and possibly damage things. That's why the systems I am familiar with don't spray until around 8 PSI with our engine size and boost. Torrie also includes just the #7 nozzle. Due to Alky Control's progressive system, the are able to run the #10 nozzle.

 

My final comment is that I am not promoting either system, or other brands like Snow of Devils Own, as better or worse... You the user have to decide which you can afford, or which is best for you, or maybe... that you don''t want to even try spray.

 

It's up to Y... O...U...!!!!!!

 

(Go for it!!!!)

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  • 2 months later...

Well.......

 

With the rapid closing of the 2012 race season nearly upon us.....

 

It would seem the 11's have eluded the top 3 fastest SHO owners. Damn :tsk:

 

FirstSHO came pretty damn close, as did Steve......

 

Speaking of Steve, I would think that if he ever did achieve that lofty 11 goal, he would probably make a prompt exit from his car (right after retrieving his time slip) and dance a lil jig which would look a lil sumthin like this:

 

imager.php?id=4283473&t=o GIFSoup

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If you watch back my video on youtube against the Mustang, you will notice that I speed up the video until I show the slip to the camera... Watching carefully and if you slow it down/ or pause it, you will see my dance! Well at least my super happy move!

11's aren't easy for a fact... Apparently it was crowdy as hell yesterday at Milan but that the track was well prepped and a strong tailwind... That sounds like a good scenario for improved times. Chris Crash, FirstSho Mike or Darrell... None of you could lower your times?

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LOL! I was hoping yesterday would have been the day. Weather was great and had a strong tail wind, but with a hundred plus cars at Milan with a Mix of bracket racing and test and tune me a Darrell where only able to make one pass in 5hrs. Needless to say I was very unhappy about that, what a waist of a great day.

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If you watch back my video on youtube against the Mustang, you will notice that I speed up the video until I show the slip to the camera... Watching carefully and if you slow it down/ or pause it, you will see my dance! Well at least my super happy move!

11's aren't easy for a fact... Apparently it was crowdy as hell yesterday at Milan but that the track was well prepped and a strong tailwind... That sounds like a good scenario for improved times. Chris Crash, FirstSho Mike or Darrell... None of you could lower your times?

 

It was crowded and the track really wasn't that great. A 1.9 60ft for me isn't the sign of a well prepped track. We did have a good tailwind but the DA wasn't great either at about 1400ft.

 

All that being said, I have a serious traction issue. I think without a suspension upgrade the 11s aren't gonna be there. I still have 1-2 outings before the end of the season. I'm hoping to try some stock wheels because at this point I do believe the weight will help (which means Steve, that I couldn't been much faster than you if I would have had heavier wheels! Lol).

 

Another option is to take some power out of it, which I did try but I'd have to work with Dan a little more to figure it out precisely...plus I think I picked a bad time to do the turbos..I think with the factory setup I could've been there...but with a leaking turbo I thought I'd just swap them while they were out....

 

Good luck to everyone out there!

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If you guys cant do it I will have first crack in 2013 (I hope). Cordova Dragway has "Hangover fest" a 1 day event on Jan 1. When I ran 12.44 I was spinning all over and noticed I sped up / ran my fastest 60' after it warmed up and I turned my initial up. Now I have summer tires on stock 20" PP wheels. If it is 40 and sunny I will put my summer tires on and head over. Better yet maybe one of those 50s days we had last year.

 

Hoping I can get a dyno tune before then.... If not I will give her my best shot with what I got!

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When I let my car cool down, the tires are getting cold too and it affects my launches too. The best way to warm the tires that I found is to do eights and donuts in the parking without just the time that the oil warms up and usually it gives me just enough traction. If you like your tranny, don't try to do a burn out... I tried it and the tranny needed a rebuilt after lol! My tires are still good for normal driving and a normal person would still put a good 10-15K miles on them, but I will change them anyways early next spring and with the downpipes, I truly believe 11's are reachable...

Good luck Paul! and good luck Darrell with OEM wheels... Maybe Darrell, an easy way to remove power is to start injecting methanol just after 10psi instead of 7-8 or is it possible to launch in 2nd gear? I don't remember...

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Steve you already had a tranny rebuild? Do you mind sharing what it cost? That is one of my fears' date=' smoking the trans. I am hoping it is not to expensive if the time comes.[/quote']

Good relation with dealer, plus a Taurus not being a Mustang doesn't raise flag, so all under warranty... Ouf!

Otherwise it would have been a good 3-5k$!!!

But I always had reported a clunk in the tranny and they never could fix it so I guess it was meant to break at one point... With the use of my car, it just happened sooner lol...

Been running rebuilt for exactly a year now and it runs better than when I first purchased the car, performant, smooth, solid and no more clinks when downshifting manually...

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