shaker281 Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Unless Torrie has something showing that tolerances, specs, bearings or anything internal has changed he is simply speculating like everyone else. Tuning cars and engineering their internals are two completely different things. Talking about the strategy code affecting the choice of oil weight when running an aftermarket tune is rather ironic! I think going from 5w20 to 5w30 should be the least of the concerns at that point. Certainly, running 5w20 in the summer in Arizona is a lot different from running 5w20 in the winter in Minnesota! Simply running full synthetic vs FMC synthblend is a significant difference. Not all 5w20 is created equal, that is for sure. And believing that specific weight of oil is best for all climates and seasons is stretching the limits of credibility. Ford may have switched from 5w20 to 5w30 just to simplify their supply chain. Plus, if Ford chose 5w20 as a compromise to attain higher CAFE ratings then it may not be the best choice for longevity, particularly on a tuned motor which is changing engine dynamics considerably. The EB motor in the F150 most definitely has a different tune strategy , along with different turbos and likely other internal changes for a truck application. That makes drawing any conclusion from that rather irrelevant. Funny thing about discussions regarding oil is they are almost as fanatical, controversial and partisan as politics! The Amsoil guys are like the libertarians, they are absolutely sure they have the best solution, just no one will listen! :cheer2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBrick Bob Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Oil is tested and the first number is it's thickness cold. That thickness is supposed to remain stable over a wide range of "cold" temps when car is not yet running. Since most engine wear occurs when the engine is cold and starting to build oil pressure, the thinner the oil is initially, the faster it gets to all the oiling points. Thus, if you are in MN in the winter, you might be best off with a 0w oil. The latter number is the thickness at operating temps. That thickness should remain stable as one has a T-stat that controls engine operating temps within a 10-15 degree range. Thirty weight oil is thicker in those operating temps than 20 weight oil. Outside temp has very little bearing on that oil weight unless you are running your engine in an oven. And yes...the strategy code Ford installs affects this because it is their specific computer variables that they entered for all the computerized operating systems. When they update it for you if you have issues, they modify those variables. And as for the F-150, it is correct that it runs a different Strategy, plus has other rather major changes to the intake, turbos and valve train. BUT... THEY ARE BUILT ON THE SAME ASSEMBLY LINE, so FORD decided the smaller production car engine should be adjusted to run on 5w-30, so that they only had to have one type of oil available in the assembly process, which is where the oil is added to the engine. It comes full of oil from the engine plant to the car or truck assembly plant. Seriously, I doubt that 5w-20 vs 5w-30 oil will drastically affect your engine, unless it blows up and Ford determines that the type of oil was not correct per their build specs. Then it might cost you $$$$$. Over on GRRRR8.net board there is a moderator who has damaged 2 cams from a roller lifter issue on the same valve. The roller flat-spotted and took out the cam. The general conclusion was that the spring tension wasn't high enough for some reason both times and the roller slid. We have a Crane Roller system and custom roller cam in our 502 boat engine. Crane specifically stated at the time of install, to NEVER use Synthetic oil because it was too slippery for their system as designed (not enough spring tention) and would cause rollers to slide and cause failure. So... argue all you want, but unless you are an engine design engineer, with a PHD in oiling... I wouldn't go around calling any of us out. We just might know more than you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjhpadi Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Unless Torrie has something showing that tolerances, specs, bearings or anything internal has changed he is simply speculating like everyone else. Tuning cars and engineering their internals are two completely different things. Talking about the strategy code affecting the choice of oil weight when running an aftermarket tune is rather ironic! I think going from 5w20 to 5w30 should be the least of the concerns at that point. Certainly, running 5w20 in the summer in Arizona is a lot different from running 5w20 in the winter in Minnesota! Simply running full synthetic vs FMC synthblend is a significant difference. Not all 5w20 is created equal, that is for sure. And believing that specific weight of oil is best for all climates and seasons is stretching the limits of credibility. Ford may have switched from 5w20 to 5w30 just to simplify their supply chain. Plus, if Ford chose 5w20 as a compromise to attain higher CAFE ratings then it may not be the best choice for longevity, particularly on a tuned motor which is changing engine dynamics considerably. The EB motor in the F150 most definitely has a different tune strategy , along with different turbos and likely other internal changes for a truck application. That makes drawing any conclusion from that rather irrelevant. Funny thing about discussions regarding oil is they are almost as fanatical, controversial and partisan as politics! The Amsoil guys are like the libertarians, they are absolutely sure they have the best solution, just no one will listen! :cheer2: Your points are well taken and I really don't have much of a disagreement with anything you have stated here. However, your point about one oil weight being best for all climates is one that I must bring up a point. I completely agree with you if we were talking straight weight oil that was used in bygone days but I thought the whole point of multi-weight oil was to give flexibility to the use of oil in different climates. And since most of us do use one of the 2 multi-weights discussed here, and also since there is a wide range of brands of both oil and filters, it seems almost a moot point to say one or the other is better. It appears that no one has experienced any oil related failures or problems, it seems that the most important part of oil is doing regular changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 it seems that the most important part of oil is doing regular changes. For sure, regular oil and filter changes, and use of a quality synthetic over-ride the difference between 5w-20 and 5w-30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaker281 Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 So... argue all you want, but unless you are an engine design engineer, with a PHD in oiling... I wouldn't go around calling any of us out. We just might know more than you... Actually, I believe you "called me out" in post 49 when I posted my opinion in post 46, which led to my response in post 51. Right there in black and white, why I love a written record! No problem, I get it, you consider yourself a big dog over here. And heck, who am I but some newb who dares to question authority? Understood. Still, relating how oil viscosity numbers are derived (I've been to BITOG too) does not address any of the points I made. No matter how good multi-viscosity oil may be, it is not magic oil, hence it is a compromise. And while your anecdote regarding synthetic oil and roller cams is enlightening, it is also irrelevant to this discussion. Using your own words, unless you have a PHD in oiling (if such a thing exists), neither of us can lay claim to any special insight here. Still, it is safe to assume (FWIW) that Ford would not go to the major expense or cost to change the internals of a brand new engine design the very next model year, without being faced with some necessity like bearing or valve train failures. Which leads to a safe assumption that the change was one of convenience. Where I live it drops to 10 below in the winter and we just had a week of 100+ degree temps. Believing there is a single weight of oil that is best for both ends of that spectrum really stretches credibility. I plan to switch back to 5w20 for my winter driving and use 5w30 in the summer. And I am now using synthetic versus synth-blend. By the time I might have a catastrophic engine failure my warranty will be long gone. But, I still find it ironic that anyone running an aftermarket tune would be talking warranty at all. Do you even know what changes are incorporated in your tune? What FMC engine protection protocols are disabled? I know of a few, but good luck getting any tuner to reveal that info. We agree that it is doubtful 5w20 or 5w30 will make any difference in the long run. But just suppose that FMC determined 5w20 was not enough protection for the 3.5 EB, based on long term analysis, and made a conscious decision to convert to 5w30 as a way to stave off future problems. They might not want to create alarm or problems leading to lawsuits or warranty extensions by alerting 2010 owner's over a low probability event only seen in hotter climates. Lot's of ways to look at this. They might just know more than any of us! And FMC is notoriously tight lipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaker281 Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Your points are well taken and I really don't have much of a disagreement with anything you have stated here. However' date=' your point about one oil weight being best for all climates is one that I must bring up a point. I completely agree with you if we were talking straight weight oil that was used in bygone days but I thought the whole point of multi-weight oil was to give flexibility to the use of oil in different climates. And since most of us do use one of the 2 multi-weights discussed here, and also since there is a wide range of brands of both oil and filters, it seems almost a moot point to say one or the other is better. It appears that no one has experienced any oil related failures or problems, it seems that the most important part of oil is doing regular changes.[/quote'] Yes, it is a very fine distinction. The way I look at it, multi-viscosity oil does provide a greater measure of flexibility across environmental conditions, but it is still a compromise. Remember, even FMC has recommended a range of multi-viscosity oils in their product lines based on ambient temps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 We agree that it is doubtful 5w20 or 5w30 will make any difference in the long run. But just suppose that FMC determined 5w20 was not enough protection for the 3.5 EB, based on long term analysis, and made a conscious decision to convert to 5w30 as a way to stave off future problems. They might not want to create alarm or problems leading to lawsuits or warranty extensions by alerting 2010 owner's over a low probability event only seen in hotter climates. Lot's of ways to look at this. They might just know more than any of us! And FMC is notoriously tight lipped. Great, now you have me all paranoid. I am just going to put in half 5w-20 and half 5w-30........to create 5w-25. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjhpadi Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Yes' date=' it is a very fine distinction. The way I look at it, multi-viscosity oil does provide a greater measure of flexibility across environmental conditions, but it is still a compromise. Remember, even FMC has recommended a [i']range[/i] of multi-viscosity oils in their product lines based on ambient temps. I agree with you about Ford having different recommendations based on temperature. However, you use the example of -10 to 100 degrees when talking about one oil being flexible for different conditions. I think you would admit those temperatures are a very wide range and I really believe that if you are running your vehicle in temperatures that were consistently below 0 F, you might not use the same weight oil as you would be if you were in a climate that saw long periods when temperatures were around 100 degrees. However, since most of us live in climates where there isn't that large of temperature changes (other then the occasionally very hot or very cold spell) that one weight of oil would suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash712us Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Just to add my my 2 cents. In years past your car had climate chart in the owners manual to figure out what weight of oil you should be using in your car. This may or may not be in our manuals i dont know haven't looked. The debate over wether to us 5-20 or 5-30 to me is moot. From what I know about oils they difference between the 2 is almost nil. How ever I do not recommend using anything less then what the manufacture specifies. Back in the 1990's when I have my vw G60 corrado, vw was very specific on what oil it should not use. No 0w or 5w oils and if needed to do so due climate they advise on maximum speed and rpm's. But it in my opinion if you have a early model Sho that calls for 5-20 I think you be perfectly safe to run 5-30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjhpadi Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Just to add my my 2 cents. In years past your car had climate chart in the owners manual to figure out what weight of oil you should be using in your car. This may or may not be in our manuals i dont know haven't looked. The debate over wether to us 5-20 or 5-30 to me is moot. From what I know about oils they difference between the 2 is almost nil. How ever I do not recommend using anything less then what the manufacture specifies. Back in the 1990's when I have my vw G60 corrado' date=' vw was very specific on what oil it should not use. No 0w or 5w oils and if needed to do so due climate they advise on maximum speed and rpm's. But it in my opinion if you have a early model Sho that calls for 5-20 I think you be perfectly safe to run 5-30.[/quote']This has always been my thoughts and since I have been using 5w-20 since at least 1998 logging over 200,000 miles on engines using 5w-20 I feel fairly safe using it in the SHO...besides I have already purchased a nice supply of it so I am going to use it...at least until I need to purchase a new supply! lol BTW, in all the engines I have used the 5w-20 I have not experienced any oil related problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBrick Bob Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 I am using 0W-30 Mobil 1... LOL Viscosity be DAMNED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaker281 Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 I agree with you about Ford having different recommendations based on temperature. However' date=' you use the example of -10 to 100 degrees when talking about one oil being flexible for different conditions. I think you would admit those temperatures are a very wide range and I really believe that if you are running your vehicle in temperatures that were consistently below 0 F, you might not use the same weight oil as you would be if you were in a climate that saw long periods when temperatures were around 100 degrees. However, since most of us live in climates where there isn't that large of temperature changes (other then the occasionally very hot or very cold spell) that one weight of oil would suit.[/quote'] Absolutely. And that is what I was trying to convey initially, perhaps not as effectively as I intended! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaker281 Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Just to add my my 2 cents. In years past your car had climate chart in the owners manual to figure out what weight of oil you should be using in your car. This may or may not be in our manuals i dont know haven't looked. The debate over wether to us 5-20 or 5-30 to me is moot. From what I know about oils they difference between the 2 is almost nil. How ever I do not recommend using anything less then what the manufacture specifies. Back in the 1990's when I have my vw G60 corrado' date=' vw was very specific on what oil it should not use. No 0w or 5w oils and if needed to do so due climate they advise on maximum speed and rpm's. But it in my opinion if you have a early model Sho that calls for 5-20 I think you be perfectly safe to run 5-30.[/quote'] Precisely what I was alluding to! Even though a multi-viscosity oil, they have had slightly different recommendations based on ambient temps historically FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaker281 Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Great' date=' now you have me all paranoid. I am just going to put in half 5w-20 and half 5w-30........to create 5w-25. LOL[/quote'] I knew that statement would get someone's attention! Be sure and measure that mixture precisely and compensate for temperature! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaker281 Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 I am using 0W-30 Mobil 1... LOL Viscosity be DAMNED! A lot of GT500 guys are using Amsoil 0w40, in lieu of MC 5w50. Amsoil does not make a 5w50 that Ford recommends. They have a whole chart outlining used and new oil analysis they are using as "support". Those Amsoil guys will absolutely bury you with data. Talk about getting OCD and paranoid at the same time! :biggrin1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBrick Bob Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 I am now so confused, I think I will just run the car without oil... that way I won't have to decide which viscosity anymore.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero69 Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 I have been using Rotella T6 synthetic. It is a 5W 40 and it has been fantastic. You can Google the oil and check it out. I used Mobil 1 exclusively before this. A buddy turned me on to it after running it in his ecoboost F150. Thumbs up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetair Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 I saw where on my 2013 it is 5-30 vs the 5-20 Synthetic blend for my 2008 Expedition. Is the 5-30 a blend too or synthetic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83racecrew Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Synthetic or blend is fine. I just changed mine over to Amsoil, been running it in all my vehicles for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero69 Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 As long as you let your car warm up when it's cold and make sure the oil stays topped off you should be fine lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD13SHO Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 This has been a topic on just about every forum I have been a member of. For those who are interested, here is the "definitive" site for explanations on oil. Enjoy! I have been using Mobil 1 since 1978, to include four years in Germany, with a '79 5.0 Mustang. I have never had an engine problem, and I always put in what the manufacturer recommends. I read on another SHO forum that Ford may have changed the viscosity from 5W-20 to 5W30 due to fuel dilution of the oil from the Direct Injection system. Apparently, this is also a problem with VW's. It was found, you could smell gasoline while checking or changing your oil. By upping the viscosity, it apparently keeps the oil from becoming diluted to the point it is no longer lubricating. Again, this is something I read, and not my experience as I only have 800 miles on my SHO. Here is a link to Bob Is the Oil Guy. I hope this helps. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travSHO Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 mine is an early build 2011 (01-11) and i have the 5w-30 cap as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjhpadi Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 I believe that 2010's call for 5w-20 (mine does) and 2011 and up recommends 5w-30. Torrie from Unleashed Tuning (who is a very knowledgeable guy) says it is best to stay with the weight recommended for your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Hawk Posted February 24, 2013 Report Share Posted February 24, 2013 Im a big fan of 5w30 Mobil-1 synthetic for more thermal protection for the FI application of the motor. I ran into the same issue with my 2003 Cobra that they recommended 5w20. I was horrified about lack of thermal protection of the engine components with the roots super charger with that weight, and later heard it wasnt for the oil galley lubrication but more so to adhere to cafe epa mileage standards. IMHO I prefer 5w30 for turbo/supercharger motors 5w20 N/A motors. I was a lifelong motor craft oil filter user for the past 25years until I read a quality comparison between Ford filter vs Mobil-1 filters then after an in person comparison it was a no brainer the Mobil filter despite being pricey seems to be of a better quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomc612 Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Ford did this to increase their CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) because the thinner 5w20 oil increases gas mileage. I use 5w30 Amsoil all year in my 2010 and runs great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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