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E15


Paulford8
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Live in Illinois and we just approved the use of E15. Anybody know anything about it? I doubt they will run a mix with higher octane but it would be nice. I know Sunoco Green is 98 octane E15 but that is used for stock cars A and B no Sunocos around me.

 

If this becomes common I worry about my small engines. I know carbs dont like ethanol to much unless they have alcohol jets which my snow blower, rider and push mower do not.

 

I know it helps the farmers which is great. Just trying to think if it will help or hurt our engines. Dont see any problems with the SHO, and it would help for sure if we could get a 94 or 95 octane E15.

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Ethanol has a higher octane rating but has a lower specific energy. Basically it requires about 30% more ethanol by volume to get the same energy output so you have to use more (It is cheaper though so it really isn't any more expensive in the end). Your pump would have to handle the extra volume and you would typically need to reprogram the ECM (the injector times need to be modified to stay open 30% longer). The biggest issues with Ethanol (besides using our corn to produce it) is it is indeed more corrosive and it attracts water. Most modern cars can actually handle the "corrosive" part. A lot of guys would actually run E85 in their grand prixs and they weren't flex fuel vehicles. That said I have no idea if there are critical parts in the Taurus fuel system that can't handle it. You can make really big power on E85 in a boosted application though...if you do it right.

 

Small engines however are a very valid concern. The company I work for manufactures products with all kinds of small engines and there are definitely potential issues.

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We have had Gasohol( 10% Ethanol) here in IA for 25+ years. Was a problem initially as it dissolved the rubber fuel lines. The higher % of alcohol, the more corrosive. Until Ford says E-15 can be used in our vehicles (by year), I would stay away. Because we have always used E-10 occasionally in all our 4 cycle engines that I own, I have not experienced any issues. But... using any first time ethanol blend in a gas tank/motor that is older, cleans all the gunk out of tank and plugs fuel filters etc, until all the crap is gone. Also cleans out any water, so we always use it the first time each season in our boats & stored cars. Prefer adding E-10 to a nearly empty tank that may have had some water condensation, vs a full tank of stale fuel. Unfortunately, now we have to use it all the time, as nothing else is available here, other than 87, which doesn't work well in our high performance engines (boats, cars, SeaDoo's etc.). It's not particularly good for 2-cycle engines as it cleans the oil off parts.

 

The reason alcohol in fuel reduces mileage is the carbon atoms are less numerous ( fuel is less complex). Personally, I have always thought it hurt mileage more than what the calculated loss is from the various percentages of alcohol relative to gasoline. I do know that several automoble magazines saw a 20+ reduction in fuel mileage from E-85. Thus, E-85 has to be price at about 2/3 the price of straight gasoline, for it to be competitively priced.

 

The only advantage to alcohol in fuel is that it is a renewable energy source. However, making the alcohol takes vasts amount of energy and water. The amount of energy consumed making the alcohol is greater than the gain in energy. It is also not environmentally positive, unless the electricity used is produced by natural gas or nuclear plants. But... it sure makes Iowa Farmers RICH!!!!!due to high corn prices. Think of a massive still that is creating moonshine. That's what alcohol production is. They add a bit of gasoline after production, so it is poisonous to drink. Otherwise, it would be massive amounts of Ever Clear! They ship it out of our area by the train load in hundreds of rail tank cars a day. The reason it can't be shipped by pipeline, is that it will clean them out and send all the gunk to the tank farm. It has to be blended at your local tank farm. It also can separate from the gas over time, so you don't want to leave large amounts in any gas tank over the winter, in storage. Also, I always make it a point to buy my fuel from the busiest station, as their E-10 is likely the freshest. Again, this can be a problem for us users of 93 or other premium grades, if the price is too high compared to 87 or 89. If the station isn't pumping a good amount of Premium, it could be stale (gas and alcohol starting to separate) and the fuel is actually not what you bought.

 

The reason it is cheaper, is all the subsidies given to the producer plants, and to the farmers. (and this is from a former owner of several Iowa farms). I guess if it wasn't available, all of us would use more gas, which would raise the price, but whether it would cost us more overall is debatable.

 

My 2 cents...

 

Opinions and additional information.... PLEASE!

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Like EcoBrick Bob mentioned the midwest has had E10 in probably 90% of the pumps for years. E15 will start showing up and may someday be in the majority so the idea of "staying away" may not be possible.

 

I would have to find it but my great and responsible state of IL published some figure with the announcement regarding it not harming current cars on the road. Lots of farming in IL so I am sure the state reps had a hand in it as the more ethanol we run the better it is for the farmers.

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Found this link from Fox midwest, says E15 is safe for all 2001 and newer. It doesnt sound it will come as fast as I thought. They mention stations putting special pumps in like the E85 pumps for only 2001 and newer cars. No mentioned of octane though. I know my F150 did use more fuel on E85 but felt stronger.

 

http://www.foxillinois.com/news/illinois/Illinois-biofuels-industry-praises-EPA-approval-of-E15-gas-146189265.html

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EBB has a well said and reasoned response to the gasohol question. Unfortunately the ethanol and environmental lobbies are in control of the situation. Some question on environmental efficiency of ethanol production /use as a fuel compared to gasoline. Want to cut dependency on foreign oil? We have become a net exporter of oil/gasoline. First since 1949. And will most likely continue into forseeable future as natural gas production/conversion continues. Might be some thought in DC to look at ethanol subsidies-but lobby is strong. Nothing until after Nov. Be happy we can still get 93 octane-I could see that being legislated out or taxed as a luxury. After all who really needs it get from point A to B? Soon all that will be sold will be go carts that nobody will want-but will have to buy as that is all available. :ohwell:

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This is from the 2010 manual, "Choosing the right fuel

Use only UNLEADED fuel or UNLEADED fuel blended with a maximum

of 10% ethanol. Do not use fuel ethanol (E85), diesel, methanol, leaded

fuel or any other fuel."

 

No methanol? there goes my spring 2013 plans..... Then again what do they know they only designed and built the car.

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With the methanol injection...you're not using it as "fuel"

 

I am so relieved..... Actually I was just being sarcastic, they are always cautious for liability reasons. The warranty specifically calls out race tracks voiding the warranty yet the new commercial has a race car driver power sliding the SHO on a racetrack.

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