shoman04 Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Thank Rick (LIVERNOIS) I ran a 13.144 my 1st 1/4mi w/stage 4+ installed on 97deg day. To all the 12sec. guys any advise on lunch rmp, traction control setting, auto-manaul-grade assist-trans setting, tire psi, help. I HOLE SHOTTED 2 GT-R and toasted a SRT8 Charger, and hung with a 549hp R8 Audi until the 1/8mi. At SILVER DOLLAR RACEWAY 7-6-12 FRI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrming Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 AWESOME STUFF!!! Nice job!! If you can find some COOL air you will definitely be in the 12s!!! The 97 degrees is costing you probably close to a 1/2 second! If you don't want to wait for the cold air to return, you could always install the Alky Control methanol kit! That will definitely get you in the 12s, even on the hot days! As fro me... I leave traction control ON. I put it in the Grade Assist mode (SSE). I do NOT use the paddle shifters. I run the RPMS up as high as I can when I launch. If the track has descent traction I don't spin... but if it doesn't I notice my traction light will blink a bit, but it appears the traction control is much more advanced than the TC i had in other cars... in other cars when the TC would kick in it would completely kill the run.. but on my Flex, even if the TC light blinks a bit, I still get a descent run!! Again, NICE JOB!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve142857 Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Definitely a cooler day will bring you in the 12's. Impressive run beside that R8 GT! I launch at around 2000 to 2200 rpm... The higher the better until wheel spin. I always remove TC and my times are better (maybe different with the FLEX). Put ice on the intake for an hour before your run and when you go for your run, try to go when you don't have to wait in a line because the engine will warm up quickly. When I cool the intake with ice, I run about 0.1 faster than if engine is warm/hot. For sure if you can have tail wind, that will help. When you stage, just move forward enough so that the second light starts to light, that way you will get better ET and trap speed because you will get an extra 6-8 inches of roll out that is not timed, so that when the time actually starts, your car is already in movement... that will cut another 0.1 second and raise your trap speed by 1mph. Remove extra weight in the car :mostly remove spare tire if you have one and run with low fuel tank... Every 100 lbs is about 0.1 second... So you can save about 100 lbs just with the fuel and another 40 lbs with all the spare tire stuff in the trunk... If you could install the sport suspension from HR springs, you can lower your time an extra 0.1 second, because of better aerodynamic and less loss of power (less weight movement from front to rear) when launching. So, now I just went to see your signature and found that you have the PP, so no spare for you. Bottom line, every 10-15 degrees is 0.1 second, so if you go back on a cooler day, let's say 60 degrees, you would shave off about 0.3 seconds... HR springs, another 0.1 second, low fuel tank, 0.1 second, shallow staging another 0.1 second, cooler intake another 0.1 second. So, you could probably reach 0.5 and be in the 12.6's. That was actually my best at 12.61 when all those factors were reunited in one cool night. Good luck! and please continue to film your runs, I love seeing them on youtube! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulford8 Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 That is a great time! With similar mods I could only muster a 13.33 (that was before springs) on a hot day. Hopefully I get closer to what you ran with the springs, but probably wont catch you as that final gear is helping you for sure. I try to set my gas up so I only have 1/8 or less when I get there. I also started taking my engine cover off as it helps the engine cool (I noticed I was slowing down when I tried to hot lap). I have been launching were she will hold but dont think I have ever been over 2K. I think mine is a 12 sec car in colder air so yours will be for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve142857 Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 but probably wont catch you as that final gear is helping you for sure. I have been bugging Darrell about the PP vs non-PP and we arrived to the conclusion that that final gear ratio is not a factor in 1/4 mile times... Actually, it is a bit slower in the 0-60 because it needs to shift in third vs second gear with non-PP... My car, non-PP, is about one tenth slower than Darrell's car and his has PP, but mainly wheels setup that weights 23 lbs less each! That is almost a 100lbs of rotating mass less than my car... His car also probably can run cooler with his 170 Thermostat, mobsteel front grille and upgraded trans cooler. So, with all that, PP doesn't seem by itself to be an advantage in the 1/4 mile... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregoire Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 I was disabling traction control completely (hold button for 5 seconds while stopped and foot on brake) and launching around 2K RPM, the brakes wont hold much higher than that especially after they get hot, at least they wouldn't for me. In the cooler weather I was lowering PSI in front to around 28 for grip, in hot weather I probably wouldn't lower any unless there was a problem with grip. I have to believe you will be in the 12's easily in cooler weather with a 13.1 in that heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoman04 Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Thanks Steve, Lot of info to intake but alot to try. And that temp thing no real hope there , it can be 85deg up to the second wkend in Nov. in HOT ATLANTA when the tracks close here. Where in the intake do you put the ice? That six inch roll may be the reason my 1/4mi & MPH TIMES very so. Not ready for the Meth or HR spring may next yr. I'll be trying that 2000-2200 rmp lunch. Thanks alot. PS I 'm in that over 50 group and young folks conplain about the old lady shakey video but she 60 something(I die if I say 60 what) and old folks shake.LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoman04 Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 That is a great time! With similar mods I could only muster a 13.33 (that was before springs) on a hot day. Hopefully I get closer to what you ran with the springs, but probably wont catch you as that final gear is helping you for sure. I try to set my gas up so I only have 1/8 or less when I get there. I also started taking my engine cover off as it helps the engine cool (I noticed I was slowing down when I tried to hot lap). I have been launching were she will hold but dont think I have ever been over 2K. I think mine is a 12 sec car in colder air so yours will be for sure! I usually get to the track with 3/4 to 5/8 full tank because the two track are 2 1/2 hr either northeast or direct south and not near a open gasstation at 11:30-12:30am. PS Is race gas at the track good for our eng, will the eng know that you have more than 93oct, and would the LIVERNOIS TUNE know what to do with the higher oct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoman04 Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 I have been bugging Darrell about the PP vs non-PP and we arrived to the conclusion that that final gear ratio is not a factor in 1/4 mile times... Actually' date=' it is a bit slower in the 0-60 because it needs to shift in third vs second gear with non-PP... My car, non-PP, is about one tenth slower than Darrell's car and his has PP, but mainly wheels setup that weights 23 lbs less each! That is almost a 100lbs of rotating mass less than my car... His car also probably can run cooler with his 170 Thermostat, mobsteel front grille and upgraded trans cooler. So, with all that, PP doesn't seem by itself to be an advantage in the 1/4 mile...[/quote'] I ask Rick over at LMS he said that PP will be faster. I will have to go with the TUNER GOO-ROO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoman04 Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 I was disabling traction control completely (hold button for 5 seconds while stopped and foot on brake) and launching around 2K RPM, the brakes wont hold much higher than that especially after they get hot, at least they wouldn't for me. In the cooler weather I was lowering PSI in front to around 28 for grip, in hot weather I probably wouldn't lower any unless there was a problem with grip. I have to believe you will be in the 12's easily in cooler weather with a 13.1 in that heat. My 1st run TC @ sport mode and grade assist on 13.148 MPH 102.72 @ 97degs. at 7pm. My last run TC all the way off, stander LMS shift managment 13.144sec. 104.96MPH, @ 93deg @10:20pm fuel tank down to 3/8 full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoman04 Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Hi Rick, shoman04 here got MyCal unit back in March love it. Have run alot of 1/8mi fun runs (no time clock) but last fri was the 1st 1/4mi timed run got a 13.144sec @ 97deg. I was hoping make 12.99 at lease or less. So I open this thread to get more info on technique on driver being faster. Anything you know would be great but my Question for you is can our eng savely us the higher octane race fuel at the track and will it make a drifference, will the car know I put high oct in,lastly will your tune know what to do with more octane? thanks Rick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoman04 Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Ok YOU guys thanks for the info and I post at 3:00am til 5:00 because I work nights. They don't call me BLADE (The Vampire) for nothing.:RpS_laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulford8 Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 I usually get to the track with 3/4 to 5/8 full tank because the two track are 2 1/2 hr either northeast or direct south and not near a open gasstation at 11:30-12:30am. PS Is race gas at the track good for our eng' date=' will the eng know that you have more than 93oct, and would the LIVERNOIS TUNE know what to do with the higher oct?[/quote'] It may help, I dont know if the ECM cuts timing any with the tune in or not. With no tune it would adjust based on octane, maybe it still does with the tune. I have heard of guys doing a gallon of race gas mixed in but I would be very cautious... Not all but some brands are still leaded, you dont want lead in your cats, and it can screw with your o2 sensors. I actually just bought a 32 oz can or Torco Accelerator for unleaded gas. If I understand the instructions right 8 ozs should be enough to make 19 gallons of unleaded 93 into 94. I am going to trry at next fill up. My 1/4 is 100+ miles away (1/8 is closer at 50) and near Iowa... Everything over there is 91 octane, but I found an exit a few miles away that has 93 at a BP. I hate running it that close so I take my programmer just in-case I need to return to stock. Would have to search to get exact number but gas is 7-8 pounds a gallon so you can do some weight reduction just on your fuel level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoman04 Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 thanks Paul. our 1/8mi is only 30min south of ATLANTA. Every station here has 93oct but SAM's club is the place to buy it. QT IS THE BEST BASIC price with med (91)grade being $0.15 more and 93 pri is $0.15 more than med grade (total $0.30) SAM base is 4-7 cent lower than QT AND 93OCT IS ONLY A PLUS $0.20 OVER BASE:faint: HAHAHAHA. GOT TO GO TO WORK later. :car: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve142857 Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 I heard that a car makes its most power using the lowest octane possible before it detonates (pings). LMS stage 4+ requires a minimum of 93 octane... So I would believe that putting anything with more octane is useless with that specific tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBoostSHO Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 I heard that a car makes its most power using the lowest octane possible before it detonates (pings). LMS stage 4+ requires a minimum of 93 octane... So I would believe that putting anything with more octane is useless with that specific tune. Agreed...unless you are knocking and it is pulling timing. These cars do knock and pull timing - especially in the heat. I have seen a degree or two at most even with the 4+ tune so I don't worry about it. Livernois has done a nice job tuning these things (obviously) and they actually recommend something higher than 93 officially but everyone runs 93 without issues. I always watch knock and the air fuel ratio on a gauge...it only takes one bad batch of gas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregoire Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 My 1st run TC @ sport mode and grade assist on 13.148 MPH 102.72 @ 97degs. at 7pm. My last run TC all the way off' date=' stander LMS shift managment 13.144sec. 104.96MPH, @ 93deg @10:20pm fuel tank down to 3/8 full.[/quote'] Thats a lot of extra weight in the tank, most of my runs were very close to an 1/8th of a tank or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulford8 Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Agreed...unless you are knocking and it is pulling timing. These cars do knock and pull timing - especially in the heat. I have seen a degree or two at most even with the 4+ tune so I don't worry about it. Livernois has done a nice job tuning these things (obviously) and they actually recommend something higher than 93 officially but everyone runs 93 without issues. I always watch knock and the air fuel ratio on a gauge...it only takes one bad batch of gas... On old school muscle cars I heard detonation all the time, have never heard it on a newer car. Not sure how the new computers work, it sounds like they adjust your timing constantly so you will not detonate, but you may loose power. I am going to try and raise my 93 to 94 and see if it does anything, if it doesnt I am only out $20 for the Torco I work with a guy that nearly ran out of gas at the track, bought 1 gallon of race gas, and sped up 1 tenth. Fluke or did his computer advance his timing? I know my 2009 F150 with flex fuel would feel stronger on 105 octane E85 because it did advance. My company actually hired an ECM strategy guy from Ford that was suppose to have worked on the first quad cam 4.6 programs, up to and including the 03/04 Cobras. I may call him just so I understand better what my computer is doing and if a tune changes how it reacts to octane, temp, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulford8 Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 OK I just went to school with one of our ECM guys. The computer will keep advancing timing up until the knock sensor fires, OR it hits whatever your max timing is set at. So our stock program had a max timing value, and Livernois/ Unleashed or whoever probably has a new max value set. I bet Ricks programmer would know if we can get max timing from 93 or if we need 94 for it in stage 4+++. Have any of you guys data logged? My guy said the knock sensor is so fast you would only hear 1 ping if at all, but a data log could tell you if the knock sensor fired at all and how many times. Now it has my curious, I may try to log with my SCT and see if anything is there. I know some on here probably knew this already.... I am now on a fact finding mission as I just realized I dont know much about what my computer is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve142857 Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 OK I just went to school with one of our ECM guys. The computer will keep advancing timing up until the knock sensor fires, OR it hits whatever your max timing is set at. So our stock program had a max timing value, and Livernois/ Unleashed or whoever probably has a new max value set. I bet Ricks programmer would know if we can get max timing from 93 or if we need 94 for it in stage 4+++. Have any of you guys data logged? My guy said the knock sensor is so fast you would only hear 1 ping if at all, but a data log could tell you if the knock sensor fired at all and how many times. Now it has my curious, I may try to log with my SCT and see if anything is there. I know some on here probably knew this already.... I am now on a fact finding mission as I just realized I dont know much about what my computer is doing. Thank you for keeping us posted, I am interested as well and don't know much about it neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoman04 Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Hi Rick' date=' shoman04 here got MyCal unit back in March love it. Have run alot of 1/8mi fun runs (no time clock) but last fri was the 1st 1/4mi timed run got a 13.144sec @ 97deg. I was hoping make 12.99 at lease or less. So I open this thread to get more info on technique on driver being faster. Anything you know would be great but my Question for you is can our eng savely us the higher octane race fuel at the track and will it make a drifference, will the car know I put high oct in,lastly will your tune know what to do with more octane? thanks Rick. OK I just went to school with one of our ECM guys. The computer will keep advancing timing up until the knock sensor fires, OR it hits whatever your max timing is set at. So our stock program had a max timing value, and Livernois/ Unleashed or whoever probably has a new max value set. I bet Ricks programmer would know if we can get max timing from 93 or if we need 94 for it in stage 4+++. Have any of you guys data logged? My guy said the knock sensor is so fast you would only hear 1 ping if at all, but a data log could tell you if the knock sensor fired at all and how many times. Now it has my curious, I may try to log with my SCT and see if anything is there. I know some on here probably knew this already.... I am now on a fact finding mission as I just realized I dont know much about what my computer is doing. Thank you for keeping us posted' date=' I am interested as well and don't know much about it neither.[/quote'] Paul I PM this message to Rick andinvited him to come to this thread he hadn't got yet but I know he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulford8 Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Paul I PM this message to Rick andinvited him to come to this thread he hadn't got yet but I know he will. Coolness. I actually thought about emailing Rick myself about the max timing/octane question. Octane level is only the resistance to detonation, and as some of the guys said already running higher octane then your car needs is worthless. I bet Rick and his programmer know a lot more about it then I do.. Yeah I have a lot to learn. That said I work with grown men that cant change their own oil, take it to a shop to inflate their tires or just drive until they get a flat, etc. I feel confident doing anything mechanical but when it comes to programs and strategy I am about as green as they get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoman04 Posted July 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Coolness. I actually thought about emailing Rick myself about the max timing/octane question. Octane level is only the resistance to detonation, and as some of the guys said already running higher octane then your car needs is worthless. I bet Rick and his programmer know a lot more about it then I do.. Yeah I have a lot to learn. That said I work with grown men that cant change their own oil, take it to a shop to inflate their tires or just drive until they get a flat, etc. I feel confident doing anything mechanical but when it comes to programs and strategy I am about as green as they get. This is all that Rick had to say, ( Wow, nice! Not bad at all in that heat. I don't do anything special at the track, but did find our car likes to leave around 1,500-1,600 rpms. You could put some unleaded race gas in, but I don't think it would do much. -Rick ) I hope he come and read the thread and inlight us more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulford8 Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 and he is correct, did have a very nice run for being in the heat. I am looking at all these little things wondering why you are so much faster then me :RpS_smile: Hopefully it is all stiff vs soft springs, cause I just did a spring swap since my last run :nod: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoman04 Posted July 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 and he is correct' date=' did have a very nice run for being in the heat. I am looking at all these little things wondering why you are so much faster then me :RpS_smile: Hopefully it is all stiff vs soft springs, cause I just did a spring swap since my last run :nod:[/quote'] Paul I know you pain, I see a guy call Beefcake on youtube run a 12.7 with only a tune!!!!!!!! I WANT TO GO 12.99 OR LOWER :Cry::frusty: Even gregoire has go 12.79 with out Meth.!!!!!!! I WANT 12 I WANT 12 I WANT 12 "I FILLED THE NEED FOR SPEED" (Retire Navy) was in San Deago when they film TOP GUN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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