100Chuck Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Aaaahhhh!!! now I understand:RpS_thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1mmyr1chter Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Well I picked up my car yesterday with the new Valve Body drove the car around for about 45 minutes yesterday no problem. Go out to lunch today and driving in stop and go traffic clunk: clunk: clunk: so the new Valve Body did not fix the problem. 'Stop and go traffic' is how I always explain the scenario to the Ford place when I take mine back to have them investigate my issues as well. Seems to be a pattern here. I am not sure about clunk clunk on mine (it does ALL sorts of weird shiat), but whenever mine wants to act up, its always in 'stop and go traffic'. I REALLY hope you have some luck on figuring this out. I have had to remove my LMS tune from mine because it was causing my problems to expose themselves much more frequently and I need the car to be driveable. Ironically, I can not leave the tune on to go show Ford or they wont cover the fix under warranty :-(. Please keep the updates coming man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100Chuck Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Well this is on the latest work order" 22769 RECHECKED CALIBRATION AND REINSTALLED LATEST PCM SOFTWARE, ROAD TESTED BY SM, COULD NOT DUPLICATE HARSH DOWNSHIFT" I drove the car in a lot of stop and go traffic around the Woodward Dream Cruise this weekend no problem with the clunk. I don't know if it is my imagination but it seems like it is down on power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imminent Rueage Posted August 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 I went to an Autocross event in Sioux Falls this weekend,(Decided not to run my car) but afterwards I drove around town with some of the people that were racing that night and I was occasionally getting the harsh downshift at very low speeds in the "stop and go" traffic scenarios. I was still not using the paddle shifters so that theory of mine is out the window... Do any of you ever get on it hard while at highway cruise speeds, say to pass someone, and then slow back down to the posted speed after hitting speeds of around 95? My transmission is still hanging in a lower gear when I slow back down and has a hard time deciding to shift back into a higher gear. I wasn't experiencing this until after my TSB work was done. It doesn't happen all the time but when it does it is quite annoying as you will be running 3krpm at highway speeds for a short time with your foot completely off the accelerator. I assume it is in hanging in 4th gear, but i cannot verify that as I do not have the enhanced PID's from Drewtech to show my current transmission position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markssho Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 I've had all the TSB's performed and never had it hang in the lower gear after accelerating to pass, etc. I have noticed, once, the slow speed clunk, and actually almost thought the car behind me had hit me. Since it is so rare, I'm not worried about it. We have the same confused transmission in our Nissan Quest (5sp auto), in that it jerks and jumps around gears around 20mph. 130k miles later, still doing it and still going strong with no issues. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrylu Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Me too. Never had mine hang but one time I experienced the low speed clunk and it was was bad enough I checked out the rear view to make sure no one had tapped me. Has not recurred since the TSB replacing the valve body. I have on rare occasions felt some slipping instead of normal shift. I'm talking so slight passengers were unaware. This slipping shift was most obvious after a flash from 4+ to 3 due to tempory unavoidable octane deprivation. The tendency went away after I logged a few more miles. After a few tankfuls of 93 I went back to 4+ and went back to rare minor issues "knock wood". Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halo3kbb Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 So, I had to de-tune my 2012 SHO to bring it back to the dealer for a laundry list of items. One of them was the complaint at the start of this thread. I realized my vehicle's age doesn't qualify for the TSB's with relation to the trans, but I was exibiting very much the same problems with the 'bump' at slow/low speeds as if someone had rear-ended me. It took some thinking but I can't remember having this 'bump' previous to the Livernois state 4+ tune. I'm not saying I never did, just can't recall it at this point. I know this much, after being detuned for two weeks, I know I haven't felt it, and have been sitting in plenty of traffic to give it the opportunity to do so. That being said, for the 6+ months I've been running tuned I felt it on a regular/semi-daily basis. I know Rick@Livernois indicated that we had to let the tranny relearn our driving habits after a fresh tune but I would think at some point between a 6 month period it would pickup on my driving habits. I think one person even noted that they just stopped driving slow. Hahaha. Chuckle. Yeah, in the streets/freeways of the Detroit area, that's kinda hard during rush-hour. So I guess I'm just polling the Livernois tuned folks... has anybody else experienced the bump and tried to de-tune for a while to see if the 'bumps' continued ? I plan on retuning tonight and giving it some 'break-in' time. But I'm sure the bumps will be back... Help us Rick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrylu Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 What I'm getting on a regular basis (couple of times per week) with 4+ is an out of the blue episode of ...momentary loss of power immediately followed by confused up-down-up shifting. This could likely occur two or three or more times unless I pull the lever down into Manual which cures the confusion straight away. Returning to Drive does not bring the problem back. I'm convinced the problem is software. I'm pretty sure 4+ makes the problem worse. I had the clunky problem before the tune and before the TSB repair. After the TSB the clunk was gone for the couple of months. Then I loaded 4+ and started experiencing recurring episodes of confused shifting. My car also magically acquires "Grade Assist" when I'm running 4+. Not stock, not 3, just 4+. Most don't have the "Grade Assist" result. Either our cars are different or maybe there are different versions of 4+ running out there. I wish LMS would figure out what is going on but I'm not getting any feeling it's even acknowledged let alone being worked on. I will probably run stock for a couple of months this winter just to confirm my thoughts. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine109 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 ...pretty sure 4+ makes the problem worse... I've had this TSB done and while running stock tune I still get the bump but it is less frequent. When it does happen it will happen be like 2, 3 or even 4 bumps in the same sitting (same drive or same day) and then it will go dormant for 2-3 months and then I'll have another episode. With the 4+ tune it becomes about the same frequency as the stock tune but before the TSB was performed. Maybe the LMS tunes are based on the stock transmission calibrations before changes were made by Ford for this issue. If some of those parameters are left unchanged in their tunes maybe they possibly need to come out with modified tunes based on what calibration changes were made in the stock tunes that have been upgraded? :RpS_unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash712us Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I've have experienced the low speed bump as you say, or a very abrupt 1-2nd shift. Prior tuning and with tune, Only usually happens only in slow moving traffic and especially if car is hot. But since adding the 2013 trans cooler it doesn't happen hardly ever. So I think it must have something to do with fluid temp. Halo do you happen to know a guy named Francis that's IT for ford? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1mmyr1chter Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 What I'm getting on a regular basis (couple of times per week) with 4+ is an out of the blue episode of ...momentary loss of power immediately followed by confused up-down-up shifting. This could likely occur two or three or more times unless I pull the lever down into Manual which cures the confusion straight away. Returning to Drive does not bring the problem back. I'm convinced the problem is software. I'm pretty sure 4+ makes the problem worse. Sweet Lord above this is a great description of what I have had forever with my car. FINALLY, somebody else is seeing what I have been seeing forever! And yes, I notice a significant increase in frequency when I tune the 4+. In defense of LMS however, I acknowledge that I had this issue before the tune, just much lower frequency. Now, can somebody please tell me they have gotten this problem fixed SOMEHOW??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1mmyr1chter Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I failed to remember that Rick has previously sent me an 'updated' tune file for my car that I never had a chance to load. This may hold some solution. I will try my best to get it loaded up and see if the problem persists... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halo3kbb Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Maybe the LMS tunes are based on the stock transmission calibrations before changes were made by Ford for this issue. If some of those parameters are left unchanged in their tunes maybe they possibly need to come out with modified tunes based on what calibration changes were made in the stock tunes that have been upgraded? :RpS_unsure: Blaine109 - Exactly what myself and another fellow here has come to believe. Our thinking is that the core LMS file must have the original 'bump' problem within it as their base programming of the tune, and then they start to mess with the shift points, fan speed/frequency/etc.... Again, I have ZERO idea what I'm talking about since I've never made or could never fully understand what goes into making one of these tunes but, I'm ready to try and start to better understand it. Can LMS at least confirm that they've looked over the 'fixes' that Ford has put into place on the stock tune to bring these 'bumps' into check? Have they/can they bring them (the fixes) into a new tune file perhaps that we can try out to see if those bumps go away or at least get to a frequency that is a match to what we can expect in the stock tune? I'm partial to calling this tune Stage Halo3kbb, but call it whatever, as long as these bumps and momementarily losses of power go away. Thanks for listening, Halo3kbb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halo3kbb Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I've have experienced the low speed bump as you say' date=' or a very abrupt 1-2nd shift. Prior tuning and with tune, Only usually happens only in slow moving traffic and especially if car is hot. But since adding the 2013 trans cooler it doesn't happen hardly ever. So I think it must have something to do with fluid temp. Halo do you happen to know a guy named Francis that's IT for ford?[/quote'] Hey Chris - Yup! Francis and I are good friends. In fact, it was funny, he called me this morning and mentioned you guys had chatted about this very same subject and just told me that I needed to put a trans cooler into place. I laughed and laughed. I saw your sticky note on the mods page on how to do it and such and I just feel as soon as I do that, I'm going to get funny eyes when I take it back to the dealer for a 'trans issue' before my 50k mile warranty expires. Again. . .it's double edged. I can put the trans cooler on to help prevent the possible problems that come from hot trans fluid or just wait for the problem to happen and let Ford worry about it before the 50k warranty. Furthermore, if this is truly the 'fix' for the bump we're experiencing, maybe LMS can (should have) put together a package for idiots like me? I would have much rather bought a tuner, a tune, and a trans cooler install kit as a package deal. Understanding that I need the tuner to install the tune, and I need the trans cooler because I'm going to melt down my transmission (aka as bumps) if I don't cool it. I know we all take a certain level of responsiblility and risk by retuning. I'm certainly NOT putting this all on LMS, please understand that. Thanks for listening, Halo3kbb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash712us Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Hey Chris - Yup! Francis and I are good friends. In fact, it was funny, he called me this morning and mentioned you guys had chatted about this very same subject and just told me that I needed to put a trans cooler into place. I laughed and laughed. I saw your sticky note on the mods page on how to do it and such and I just feel as soon as I do that, I'm going to get funny eyes when I take it back to the dealer for a 'trans issue' before my 50k mile warranty expires. Again. . .it's double edged. I can put the trans cooler on to help prevent the possible problems that come from hot trans fluid or just wait for the problem to happen and let Ford worry about it before the 50k warranty. Furthermore, if this is truly the 'fix' for the bump we're experiencing, maybe LMS can (should have) put together a package for idiots like me? I would have much rather bought a tuner, a tune, and a trans cooler install kit as a package deal. Understanding that I need the tuner to install the tune, and I need the trans cooler because I'm going to melt down my transmission (aka as bumps) if I don't cool it. I know we all take a certain level of responsiblility and risk by retuning. I'm certainly NOT putting this all on LMS, please understand that. Thanks for listening, Halo3kbb I can't positively state a trans cooler will resolve your issue entirely, but since my install my bumps have become less often and not as harsh as they where before. As I have experience the bump, but never experience a loss of power or trans hunting around gears. I do however truly believe the bump it tranny temperature related as BDP has shown the trans temps are near seal damaging temps without the 2013 trans cooler. I really couldn't see the dealer making a issue of a trans cooler, but thats just my opinion. But since your in the area perhaps we could meet up some time we can take a ride in each other car to see what each other in experiencing. Just a thought is all or maybe you can make it LMS's event at Milan in October? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrylu Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 For what it's worth tranny temps don't seem to be my favorite suspect as my typical occurrences have not been under conditions that one would associate with higher temps. Low speed, low ambient temps, low load, and usually early into a trip, or during local short hauls. In short gramps driving at it's best. Never in mountains or in more spirited higher load driving. I got to keep sniffing where the evidence points. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrylu Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 I failed to remember that Rick has previously sent me an 'updated' tune file for my car that I never had a chance to load. This may hold some solution. I will try my best to get it loaded up and see if the problem persists... Hey Jimmy I sure hope your updated 4+ file makes a difference for you. Please share what you learn with the rest of us tranny clunkers. I wonder what is supposed to be updated in your version? My first version of 4+ delivered much lower mileage than stock and lower than 3. The replacement file brought the mileage almost up to stock. Now if we could just reduce the severity and frequency of this tranny confusion. It's like the programming is buggy, the shifting gets squirrelly and by slipping it into M gives the tranny a quick reboot. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine109 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 I emailed Rick on this thread to see if we can get him to chime in on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedCandySHO Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 My car has the same issue with the random bump when running the LMS tunes. It mostly happens at low speeds when slowing for a stop light or if I accelerate hard, then let off the gas and slow quickly. It is like the transmission is very confused and has no idea what gear it should be in. I have tried other tunes from others such as Torrie & EcoInjection and they almost eliminate it all together, but in defence of LMS, my tune from Torrie has soft transmission tweaks at my request. I always thought it was just a quirk with my car, but I guess not. Maybe Rick can chime in and see how we can work with him / LMS to figure it out. I have no issues with data logging my car for them to see if we can track down the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livernois Motorsports Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 The stage 1-4 files we offer are the same for every customer with the only difference being the strategy we start with. I've said for years that the EB trans is quirky. Our 2013 was stock for longer than we liked (until we figured out how to access the computer) and even in stock form, it would clunk and almost seemed to sometimes get confused on what gear to go into. I'm confident it's nothing in the tune and unfortunately don't know what could be done to cure it since it does happen with the OEM tune as well. One other thing I will mention is that if you get your vehicle services, make sure to check the strategy after. If the dealer updates the strategy and you flash it with the old strategy, it will not run correctly in most cases. Thank you, Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrylu Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 The stage 1-4 files we offer are the same for every customer with the only difference being the strategy we start with. I've said for years that the EB trans is quirky. Our 2013 was stock for longer than we liked (until we figured out how to access the computer) and even in stock form, it would clunk and almost seemed to sometimes get confused on what gear to go into. I'm confident it's nothing in the tune and unfortunately don't know what could be done to cure it since it does happen with the OEM tune as well. One other thing I will mention is that if you get your vehicle services, make sure to check the strategy after. If the dealer updates the strategy and you flash it with the old strategy, it will not run correctly in most cases. Thank you, Rick Thanks for joining in on this thread Rick. I'm just curious about a couple of things. Why some owners are mentioning noisy fan noise when loading 4+ and I have not had that experience. Why I have acquired "grade assist" tranny mode with 4+ (not stock or stage 2 or 3) and not many other owners seem to have picked up the same capability. I have to assume not all of us SHO owners are putting up with the confused shifting detailed in this thread. I guess I wonder if you think the transmissions have manufacturing differences, models or programming differences that could account for the variation in the end results we are experiencing since as you state the tunes are the same for all. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livernois Motorsports Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Thanks for joining in on this thread Rick. I'm just curious about a couple of things. Why some owners are mentioning noisy fan noise when loading 4+ and I have not had that experience. Why I have acquired "grade assist" tranny mode with 4+ (not stock or stage 2 or 3) and not many other owners seem to have picked up the same capability. I have to assume not all of us SHO owners are putting up with the confused shifting detailed in this thread. I guess I wonder if you think the transmissions have manufacturing differences, models or programming differences that could account for the variation in the end results we are experiencing since as you state the tunes are the same for all. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk No problem! With the 4+ we had the fans turned on earlier, but several customers didn't like the fans running that much so many of the later files had fan setting closer to stock. I'm not the tuner, so I will have to get with him to see if he has an answer for the grade assist. I don't have a good answer unfortunately. -Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregoire Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 FWIW, my car has done this since purchase, doesn't matter if I am running a tune or not. I know the TSB it needs but was unable to convince my service manager to perform it since they were unable to re-produce when they had the car even though the TSB itself described the problem as intermittent or occasionally (sheesh). I'm just living with it since I am only a few months from trading it in (2013/2014 SHO probably). I hope they drive it and say there is something wrong with the tranny to which I will reply, "maybe you can convince your service manager to perform the TSB it needs since I was unable too" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrylu Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 FWIW, my car has done this since purchase, doesn't matter if I am running a tune or not. I know the TSB it needs but was unable to convince my service manager to perform it since they were unable to re-produce when they had the car even though the TSB itself described the problem as intermittent or occasionally (sheesh). I'm just living with it since I am only a few months from trading it in (2013/2014 SHO probably). I hope they drive it and say there is something wrong with the tranny to which I will reply, "maybe you can convince your service manager to perform the TSB it needs since I was unable too" Just for your information, my service writer did not require demonstration of the problem. An accurate description of the problem that was known and documented by Ford was enough. Maybe you should find a new dealer. I interviewed 3 before I selected mine. Buying the car is one thing....service is a whole different animal. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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