Warranty questions

[frankashaw]

So, what is the real deal on the warranties, the Livernois tune, CAIs, exhaust etc. These cars are a huge investment and they are pretty quick stock, has anyone had any warranty issues? As soon as I step on this thing and don't get suprised I will be looking for performance mods.

 

Airaid is advertising substantial HP and torque increases, is that true?

 

Will exhaust increase HP and Torque? Or just sound?

 

And of course the obviously awesome Livernois tunes, everything I've read has been positive. What are the HP increases? With and without exhaust or CAI.

 

Thanks.

[Paulford8]

I havent had any mechanical issues (knock on wood) but have had some other warranty issues and they havent said anything about my mods. I have seen guys with the 2010 like me get their turbos replaced for oil leaks and not have an issue. Every time I take it in I return the ECU to stock. I have heard they have ways to figure out if it was flashed, but have not heard of a warranty decline yet.

 

With Stage 4+++, and an Airaid I ran a 13.506 on an 85" day. I added an exhaust and ran 13.337 at about the same temp. I dont think the exhaust adds a lot, but maybe 15hp or so. That said I do believe it was the biggest factor in my pick-up on the 1/4 time.

 

Most guys report little gain on the intakes. I have the Airaid and it looks great, they claim 9HP but I havent seen a dyno on it.

[fishrising]

What is Stage 4+++? I have Livernoise Stage 4+. Curious what 4+++ is.

[Scrming]

Here's my dyno sheet:

 

BLUE = Stock Tune

RED = Livernois Stage 4+ Tune

GREEN = Livernois Stage 4+ with methanol

 

 

As for CAI and vendor claims... I never believe any vendors claims... dynos can be made to show anything you want to... I prefer to rely on independent testing and verification... or do my own testing... I tested a CAI at the track and found it actually made me slower... so it sits on a shelf..

[Scrming]

I havent had any mechanical issues (knock on wood) but have had some other warranty issues and they havent said anything about my mods. I have seen guys with the 2010 like me get their turbos replaced for oil leaks and not have an issue. Every time I take it in I return the ECU to stock. I have heard they have ways to figure out if it was flashed, but have not heard of a warranty decline yet.

 

With Stage 4+++, and an Airaid I ran a 13.506 on an 85" day. I added an exhaust and ran 13.337 at about the same temp. I dont think the exhaust adds a lot, but maybe 15hp or so. That said I do believe it was the biggest factory in my pick-up on the 1/4 time.

 

Most guys report little gain on the intakes. I have the Airaid and it looks great, they claim 9HP but I havent seen a dyno on it.

 

 

Not sure if the SHO uses the same mufflers as the Flex.. but we cut open the stock mufflers from our Flex and found them very restrictive:

 

 

The right half of the muffler was STUFFED with packing!!!

 

 

 

Here you can see the flow:

 

 

 

Now, unfortunately we didn't do a true before and after dyno session... but we did compare my Flex with the new exhaust against Livernois stock baseline dyno... so not an ideal situation, but i think it does confirm there is some HP to be freed up in the exhaust:

 

RED = Stock Base Line

BLUE = MRT axle back

 

 

HP

 

Torque

[Paulford8]

What is Stage 4+++? I have Livernoise Stage 4+. Curious what 4+++ is.

 

If you got the tune recently it is 4+++. Just a few tweaks here and there.. First they had 4 then tweaked it and tweaked again and again now they are on 4+++. I know a few guys in here got updated tunes from Rick as they came out for free if they had already purchased the tunes.

[mjhpadi]

I haven't had an problem with warranty work, although, I haven't had any mechanical issues that needed warranty work. But my dealer just spent 2 days fixing my lumbar and they are aware that I have the car tuned and the CAI. That said they also know that if they have to do any update to the ECU that they will let me know so I can re-install the stock tune. But I have not put the stock settings back in when I've taken it to the dealer.

[fishrising]

If you got the tune recently it is 4+++. Just a few tweaks here and there.. First they had 4 then tweaked it and tweaked again and again now they are on 4+++. I know a few guys in here got updated tunes from Rick as they came out for free if they had already purchased the tunes.

 

Thanks, I just sent Rick a note about it.

[frankashaw]

Not sure if the SHO uses the same mufflers as the Flex.. but we cut open the stock mufflers from our Flex and found them very restrictive:

 

 

The right half of the muffler was STUFFED with packing!!!

 

 

 

Here you can see the flow:

 

 

 

Now, unfortunately we didn't do a true before and after dyno session... but we did compare my Flex with the new exhaust against Livernois stock baseline dyno... so not an ideal situation, but i think it does confirm there is some HP to be freed up in the exhaust:

 

RED = Stock Base Line

BLUE = MRT axle back

 

 

HP

 

Torque

 

Thanks for the info Scrming, what about just going to a local muffler shop and having a less restrictive muffler custom installed? What are the down sides to that?

[frankashaw]

Thanks for all the info guys. I want to stay in "sleeper" mode. Quiet exhaust, no obvious mods etc. I would like to hear the turbos though. I'll probably go with a tune as well.

[fishrising]

Thanks' date=' I just sent Rick a note about it.[/quote']

 

And his response:

 

On Jul 23, 2012, at 9:00 AM, Rick LeBlanc wrote:

 

Ben,

 

I've had a few people ask about this, but not sure what they are referring to. We haven't made any changes to the 4+ file.

 

Thank you

 

Regards,

 

Rick LeBlanc

 

Livernois Motorsports & Engineering, LLC

Phone: 313-561-5500 Fax: 313-730-7500

"Like" us on Facebook

See us on YouTube

 

------

 

Rick I heard there is a Stage 4+++ now. What does it have done to it over the 4+? Thanks! Ben

[mjhpadi]

I don't know about anyone else but my 4+ is working fine. And I was wondering about all the pluses I've been seeing after the 4, since normally Rick is outstanding about keeping the Forum informed when they make any changes to the tune or have an new product available.

[ShoBoat]

Ok, so I wanted to chime in here and possibly put this to rest (in my head) before I start modding my SHO. And possibly shed some light on this for other newbies. I have not "tuned" my cars (or trucks) since my 2007 Lincoln Mark LT. Although it never really gave me any issues the dealer never mentioned the anything about the tuner mounted to the dash. Before that nothing that was under warranty. I have been reading all over the net regarding "undetectable" tuning devices, and methods for clearing the codes stored in the on board modules. To draining the battery and crossing the terminals (u have to be nuts to do that!). I am a gear head at heart and have owned may cars in the past and have added to their performance almost every time. My fastest to date was a 1971 Corvette 454 with 600RWHP. I must admit I am freaking terrified to mod my SHO. I did have a subtle conversation with my service manager regarding upgrades to the car. CAI was ok so long as its not oiled and exhaust is ok so long as it's cat back. "Tuning is a tough one due to some issues with the 5.0 in the mustang and the F150." I guess guys were melting pistons like no tomorrow. When I read the TSB on the Ecoboost engines it basically says anything you do can void your warranty. Keep in mind I am in Canada and we have similar rules in regards to aftermarket parts.

"A manufacturer cannot require you to use OEM parts under threat of voiding your warranty. They can only void your warranty if they can prove that the replacement part damaged your vehicle. What you are describing is a practice called "tied selling" which is considered anti-competitive and as such, is a violation of the Canadian Competition Act."

It sounds like there haven't been any failures as of yet, maybe Rick can chime in here? Also if you are bringing you car in for regular service, and they "detect a tune" or notice you have a cat back on your car will it void any future warranty claims? If this keeps up no modding whatsoever and that just sucks.

I bought and extended warranty and I really don't want it voided when we have years of LMS tunes run on the EcoBoost with 0 failures?

Below are a couple of links that state various different things including how to return your car to stock, does anyone have any first hand experience on any of the tips work? I would only use items that would not F up my car, I know for instance that LMS has been doing this for may years and reading some of the other members posts I know that it will work with minimal impact to the drive line. But if it can be done so that they can not tell that would be awsome and would alleviate considerable stress.

 

http://www.f150online.com/forums/chips-tuners-programming/465436-tuner-2012-ecoboost-7.html

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1155891-can-the-dealer-detect-a-tuner-even-if-its-removed-for-a-while.html

 

Jeff

 

Any insight would be great.

[BombshellSteph]

As far as I know and how laws go, as long as the dealership can't prove that any mods done to your vehicle were the cause for any issues that would fall under Warranty. The only suggestion is to return your ECU to stock before taking it in for any service. My mechanic told me that it will flag in the system if it's not stock so I need to be sure to set it back once I choose to tune my SHO.

[Crash712us]

Ah yes this age old question yet again. There are many opinions on this subject and they are just opinions largely, what it all boils down to is your relationship with your deal. We hear stories all the time about dealers not wanting to perform the simplest of warrantee request.

If your dealer is one them you may want to consider finding another dealer. Now if you have reasonable dealer they in my opinion could care less if you mod your car. However Ford will be the ultimate deciding factor in the matter, example you've modded your car and you take it into the dealer because its running poorly and they determined its a bad injector they fix because ford approves cause there is no red flags thrown up. Example 2 youve modded your car and bring in because its running poorly and the determined you have a hole in a piston, red flag ford is going to have the dealer search the PCM for signs of modding.

Its really all common sense really. As to tuning 5.0's and engine failures its the source of whoever tuned them, and I had asked this same question of LMS couple years back now about 5.0 failures they said they have had none and could go into detail why so many have had failures. So if you search this forum or any other you soon find people are very happy with LMS tunes.

We have guys on the forum that have been running tunes on there cars in excess of 40,000miles and have track hundreds of times and are turning out well over 500hp without a failure. Now do I believe there tunes are safe you bet ya, if I break something will it be covered? I certainly hope so, but there is no guarantee.

But believe me I totally understand where your at ShoBoat, I've been there as countless others have been too. Do a little research and search around different forums out there, your by far the first to ask this question.

And finally can they tell if your car has been tuned? absolutely, but every car that comes in for service with problem doesn't get examined for a tune. Believe me Ford knows what all the normal problems are, but bring your car in with a rod thru the oil pan that isn't normal and your going to be SOL.

[ShoBoat]

Thanks Guys, I know I know. It's been asked and I know it's been answered. But here where so many of you, Crash for instance that have been running these tunes for some time now with that extensive knowledge and no BS for answers. That's why I asked it here. I have a good relationship with my dealer (we have purchased 2 trucks and 2 cars from them) and in the past they could care less. From what I read so far I have yet to run across anyone with something bad to say about LMS or their tunes. Which after considerable time spent right here in front of my computer I will purchase it from LMS when the time comes. I will also do the cat back system maybe a spring kit although now I'm getting ahead of myself. Now If I could just figure out where the damn clunk in my seat is coming from I would be really happy! Hey you don't think they could void the warranty on that because of too much hp?:eyebrows:

[Crash712us]

Glad I could help, but we've all needed a little reassurance at one point or another. But with LMS you be making a safe and yet fun investment, I live with in 5 miles of them and know a few of they guys that work there including Rick and Dan that does all the tuning, Dan is very conservative and doesn't take chances and all tunes are created on chassis dyno. His and companies reputation are A #1.

[mjhpadi]

I know we've discussed this at length, but my service manager at the dealer is aware that I have the car tuned, and has driven it. He also knows that if he is doing anything (like a reflash) he will warn me to put back in the stock tune. Other then that, I have always left the tune in the car, and never gotten a hassle from my dealer, but they are really great.

[racerx78]

I with a new warranty, i'm reluctant to mod the car beyond getting a catback. I've had modified cars in the past and taking the chance that if something happens having to fight with ford to get the car fixed is not appealing. With that said, over the last 3yrs since its release its been proven we have a very stable platform to work with that is very strong. I can say if i did decide to tune, that LMS seems to have gotten this platform dialed in.

[nameneeded]

I too am in Canada. Like it has been commented mods can only void a warranty "claim" if it can be shown that the mod was the probable cause. Now let me break that out a bit...

 

If you tune your car and then have issues with anything tied to the engine then you are at risk. I have seen claims get tossed because the dealer claimed the tune caused the engine to run hotter which affected the efficentcy of the AC system and thats why it failed. Yes, AC issue claim not approved under warranty due to tune. lame. Now that being said some dealers look the other way because they just want the business or like the person. Helps if they are the orginal dealer you bought from and you use them for regular servicing and even some parts.

 

Now as far as voiding it doesn't void the warranty but just that claim. So lets say you burn a piston. They void that claim as you had a tune. But your stereo starts acting up.... no relation to a tune so still covered under warranty.

 

At least that is how it works here.

 

As far as being able to tell if it has been tuned... my understanding is it has to be searched. They can't tell with just a diag unless you reflashed an older version of your stock tune than they updated on your last visit. And they usally don't waste the time for that.