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Octane Ratings and Livernois Tunes: Overcoming the local filling stations.


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Alright, so I'm planning to call Rick tomorrow to order my programmer and tunes, but I have a few questions. To start, the gas stations around here sell no higher than 92 octane (more commonly 91 octane) premium; and this goes on town after town in every direction... Now, if I am not mistaken, running this grade of fuel will allow me to run NO HIGHER than level 3, correct? So, what I am wondering, is what some of you have done to overcome this situation, assuming anyone is in this same dilemma, and if not, what would you recommend? I have never used an Octane booster, but I would assume that is about my only option, correct? I plan to eventually install the meth injection kit, which should boost my octane enough to allow use of the level 4 tune(depending on what mix I run), but I will not be doing that for a while yet.

 

I am also very curious why Livernois does not offer an e-85 tune. Many of the guys at the drag strip are running e-85 dyno'd tunes now with great results. I'm sure there is a good reason as to why, I am just uncertain what that reason is. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the DI fuel pump?

 

PS:CAI/Pre-Filter are on the way. PSS:Has anyone heard anything about Weapon-R Cold Air Intakes? I see they offer one for our car and had never heard the name until tonight. http://www.weapon-r.com/index.php?act=view_product&id=2062

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Alright, so I'm planning to call Rick tomorrow to order my programmer and tunes, but I have a few questions. To start, the gas stations around here sell no higher than 92 octane (more commonly 91 octane) premium; and this goes on town after town in every direction... Now, if I am not mistaken, running this grade of fuel will allow me to run NO HIGHER than level 3, correct? So, what I am wondering, is what some of you have done to overcome this situation, assuming anyone is in this same dilemma, and if not, what would you recommend? I have never used an Octane booster, but I would assume that is about my only option, correct? I plan to eventually install the meth injection kit, which should boost my octane enough to allow use of the level 4 tune(depending on what mix I run), but I will not be doing that for a while yet.

 

I am also very curious why Livernois does not offer an e-85 tune. Many of the guys at the drag strip are running e-85 dyno'd tunes now with great results. I'm sure there is a good reason as to why, I am just uncertain what that reason is. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the DI fuel pump?

 

PS:CAI/Pre-Filter are on the way. PSS:Has anyone heard anything about Weapon-R Cold Air Intakes? I see they offer one for our car and had never heard the name until tonight. http://www.weapon-r.com/index.php?act=view_product&id=2062

 

I am in the same boat here in central IA, 91 octane is the highest anyone has, and many newer stations don't even have that. All the new Casey's stores only have two blends - 87 and 89(10% ethanonl). So what are we octane starved ecobosters to do?

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In parts of rural Iowa, there is nothing higher than 89 gasohol. Last summer I got stuck running it when I had a custom 3 bar W/M Torrie Tune installed. Since I had no choice, I just drove like an old grandma.... and had no issues whatsoever.

And here in IA... it's not hard to know how to drive like an old grandma.... as they are 75% of the rural drivers...LOL

 

The big issue would be if you were attempting to or really beating on your EB engine while running low octane fuel.

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Weapon R has been around for years, more popular in the import market, but they've been around for a while. Don't think I'd trust the product without even a picture of a better idea of what it is...not when the AirRaid is priced the same.

 

I guess I'm pretty lucky to have several 93 octane stations around here.

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I've seen the same ad also for the weapon r system, but that's it never seen installed, the link for product manual has been broken for well over a year. I'd be Leary of. As to octane boosters checkout this article I plan to try myself at the track in a couple of weeks.

http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html

 

Just read the article on toluene... Those of us who have run w/m (50-100% methanol) spray are getting the same effect, as methanol has a much higher octane level than pump gas. Also, if you are tuning for a specific percentage of methanol spray, and the spray is always the same percent, you can maximize power output. The advantage with spraying is that you also get the cooling effect in your intake air. It can easily be shown if you log the MCT (manifold charge temperature) your WOT runs on the street or strip. The turbo's boost MCT big time. However, effective spraying can actually reduce MCT to below the ambient temp, which it was doing on my stationary dyno runs.

 

Note: Spray, is NOT a way to compensate for lower octane gas, though it might work if a tuner set it up on a dyno, or thru real-world logging/testing.

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Thanks for the replies so far guys. Yeah, I didn't figure the Weapon-R would be worth the risk, that's why I ordered the Airaid unit; I was just curious if anyone else had heard of/experienced them as they looked intriguing.

 

I'm glad you chimed in on the meth-injection topic Bob, I was just assuming that spray would boost the octane rating enough to allow the use of the +4 tune...I shouldn't forget what they say about assuming things :P

 

Now, if I am correct, the tanks in these cars hold 19 gallons, correct? So if I was to go to the local Sherwin Williams and stock up on Toluene and then run 17gal of 91 octane premium and 2 gallons of Toluene I would be getting an effective octane rating of 93.4 which should be sufficient for the +4 tune. Now, say I was to stop at one of the stations that was selling 92 octane, I would still be ok running 2 gallons of Toluene as I would then be getting an effective rating of 94.3 octane.

 

The only thing that concerns me is that I tend to fill up at random points in time so I never know how many gallons I'm going to be putting in, I guess I'd just have to make an educated guess at how many gallons it will take to fill the tank and calculate from there...a bit of a pita, but definitely doable.

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You could go this route:

 

http://torcoracefuel.net/pro-accelerator.html

 

This is concentrated race fuel... I know guys that have used it with great success...

 

Personally... I would try the Stage 4+ and when you load the tune simply do a -3 Global Spark.. do some data logging and if things look good perhaps try -2 degrees... assuming you are running 92..

 

I would also look at putting in methanol... It is basically race gas on demand! LOL!

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Intriguing. I'm looking for something that will be daily-driven reliable. If i had the option to buy 93 octane fuel, I'd much rather do that...sadly that is not possible.

 

From that chart, it looks like if i was to run 91 octane fuel, I could basically just dump in a 32 ounce bottle per tank of fuel. $20.00 extra per tank of fuel...yikes.

 

You think with 92 I could get away with the stage 4 if I just adjust the spark advance a bit? I will be new to data logging, but am planning to get into it as I am wanting to get some info before I even throw a tune on so I can reference it as a baseline.

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Intriguing. I'm looking for something that will be daily-driven reliable. If i had the option to buy 93 octane fuel, I'd much rather do that...sadly that is not possible.

 

From that chart, it looks like if i was to run 91 octane fuel, I could basically just dump in a 32 ounce bottle per tank of fuel. $20.00 extra per tank of fuel...yikes.

 

You think with 92 I could get away with the stage 4 if I just adjust the spark advance a bit? I will be new to data logging, but am planning to get into it as I am wanting to get some info before I even throw a tune on so I can reference it as a baseline.

 

Ok... this is just my opinion... i am not a tuner... no way should it be construed as anything other than my thoughts... LOL

 

This weekend I went down to Tulsa and found that in Oklahoma they basically only have 91 octane! I ended up mixing some 91 with the 93 I had in the tank... don't remember exactly how much... but guessing it might have taken me down to 92... I had stage 4+ loaded.... I put the Flex in some low RPM, high load situations and the temp was in mid 90s... This is probably the worst situation you can put the engine in... I had no audible pinging... My timing stayed very steady... to me it did not appear the knock sensors were doing anything. I also did some hard take offs... I had no issues... So if you can get 92, i would say running Stage 4+ and pulling a couple of degrees of global spark would be a pretty safe thing... again, this is just my observation... I would rely on what Rick has to say...

 

BTW... did find some 104 Unleaded at Tulsa Raceway for my runs there! LOL

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I will definitely run it by Rick before I send him the info for my tunes. I talked to him today and got the Mycal ordered so I am very excited at this point. I've got a fair amount of things coming this week. The Mycal device, a Livernois windshield decal, a new set of SHO hood stripes(as I botched my first install), Airaid CAI/Pre-filter, Black Ford emblem decals that my local tint/decal guy is cutting out, and a new Creative X-Fi Titanium HD to replace my old one that is on it's final leg :( ...the only disappointing part is that I am paying 20 dollars more for the sound card than I did when I bought my first one on release day...what's up with that??? Thinking about ordering some different OP-AMPS this time around, but not certain what ones I want to go with.

 

104 unleaded...that is awesome. Thanks a lot for the help Scrming.

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Anyone able to chime in on e-85 tuning for these cars? Much easier for me to find that than it is to find 93 octane premium. I'm still curious as to why no one is running it.

 

Edit: I may be answering my own question here but maybe the fact that you can't pump enough fuel to make up for the differences has something to do with it. (Who is going to make a higher output DI Pump for these things :P ???) I mean 105+ octane and cooler burning are big positives, so there must be some reason.

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Weapon R has been around for years, more popular in the import market, but they've been around for a while. Don't think I'd trust the product without even a picture of a better idea of what it is...not when the AirRaid is priced the same.

 

I guess I'm pretty lucky to have several 93 octane stations around here.

 

Especially when David from Airaid has been a sponsor and supporter of this website, not to mention he has proven time and time again that Airaid has great customer service...I know I wouldn't even consider a different intake after seeing the quality of Airaid and their customer service.

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Anyone able to chime in on e-85 tuning for these cars? Much easier for me to find that than it is to find 93 octane premium. I'm still curious as to why no one is running it.

 

Edit: I may be answering my own question here but maybe the fact that you can't pump enough fuel to make up for the differences has something to do with it. (Who is going to make a higher output DI Pump for these things :P ???) I mean 105+ octane and cooler burning are big positives, so there must be some reason.

 

Our cars arent set up for E-85, meaning tubing etc. In addition, I cant say for certain but I believe the DI pump probably couldnt support the increased fuel requirements for E-85.

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I agree that Airaid is a great company and I am glad to support one of your website sponsors. I had ordered the Airaid kit before I even started this thread so I had no intention of buying the Weapon-R, i was just curious what others had heard about them as there kits look interesting.

 

That's funny Bob...but on a serious note, what would you do if you were in my situation? I am just wanting to be able to daily drive with the +4 tune....If I had to drive a half hour every time I needed to fill up I would do it if someone in that distance had 93 octane fuel, but I don't believe South Dakota even imports that rating of fuel; I think it is 87/89/91/92. I'm half tempted to be the first guy here to convert one of these engines over to run on e-85 :P

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Like Darreli, I would worry about how the DI pump would handle it. E-85 is VERY Corrosive....

 

Personally, I would run the Stage 3, and perhaps when in the company of stations with 93, switch over to 4+. Unless you are constantly making WOT runs from 0-100, you really won't notice that much difference. You can re-load tunes in less than 5 min.

 

Truthfully, none of us ever know if we are really getting what we pay for. Many stations have a single hose for all grades. How much 87 or 89 are you getting when you push the 93 button? One thing I faithfully attempt to do is buy from the busiest station, considering the issues with alcohol and gasoline separating over time.

 

I also run my boats, seadoos & cars nearly out of fuel, when I place my vehicles in storage. That way, when getting them out, I can fill them with new fuel.

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I meant to mention torco also' date=' although I have never tried. But I have friend that uses a similar product and it works for him.[/quote']

 

Up here in Alaska we are 91 octane. Just about everyone here running tuned Wrx subarus is running Torco. When I am running my 93 map in my Wrx I am using 1/3 a can per fill up. So about 7$ more per tank. It is amazing stuff.

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Up here in Alaska we are 91 octane. Just about everyone here running tuned Wrx subarus is running Torco. When I am running my 93 map in my Wrx I am using 1/3 a can per fill up. So about 7$ more per tank. It is amazing stuff.

 

Good info tractor. But EBB is right about the stage 3 tune not a lot of difference between it and +4 other then the lack torque management. Ideally over the long haul I think would be the best bang for your buck and not have to supplement your fuel with a booster, would be to have your car dyno tuned on the fuel that's available to you. But as EBB said there is no guarantee you get what you paying for at the pump. And octane rating fluctuates with climate, altitude, etc. But realistically as we all weekend warriors mostly all we can do is hope for the best.

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