Need Some Help

[Blaine109]

I'm still fighting with my SHO and the dealership about performance issues I've been experiencing with the SHO. My SHO seems to be bogged down most of the time during casual driving and acceleration. Dealership says "operating normal."

 

My issue:

During casual acceleration I sense a power drop, see the RPM's pull back and at times hear what sounds like air being dumped from the BOV's.

Let's say that you're stopped at a red light and it turns green and you're in traffic. You casually get up to about 30 MPH and the car in front of you moves out of the way. I then give it a little more gas, not enough to cause the transmission to downshift but enough pedal to get me up to 40-45 fairly quickly (roughly 15%-20% pedal steady). This acceleration starts off at 30MPH is while I'm the car is in 3rd gear. When I push down the pedal I will see the RPM's go up but quickly knock back down and then kind of stair step back up as I pick up speed and power. It has a very bogged down sound and almost feels like the engine is being flooded. When all that is happening I will hear what sounds like air rushing out slowly. This is a distinct sound that only happens when I am experiencing this issue. Since the RPMS's are low and the engine isn't under a heavy load the turbos aren't running very hard. But it seems that I hear air being released as the turbos are trying to build boost.

 

I can replicate this issue manually by putting the car in 3rd gear and start at 30 MPH and give it some casual gas. I can also do it in 4th @ 40 MPH and 5th @ 50 MPH. My car is completely stock.

 

Is anyone willing to see if they can replicate my issue by putting your car in manual mode in 3rd gear going 30 MPH and then giving it a little pedal as you were just casually accelerating? If so, do you have any RPM fluctuations? Do you have any power loss sensation? Do you have any abnormal air sounds while picking up speed and power?

 

I also get a decent rumble vibration in the steering wheel while in drive and at a stop (stop light, drive-thru, etc.). The vibration builds as the car gets up to operating temperature. There have been times when it was definitely worse than it gets now but it still noticeable. No change in vibration after a fresh oil change and going back to a Motorcraft filter from a Mobil1 filter.

 

My local dealership has pretty much emphasized that they believe the car is performing as designed and I've talked with Ford customer support who goes by what the local service techs say so I really don't know what other course of action I can take if in fact I really do have an issue. The car definitely doesn't feel like it has all the power it is supposed to and also feels like power is being cut back (mostly during casual driving).

 

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

Blaine

[Blaine109]

Can a mod please move this down to the trouble shooting forum? I posted it in the wrong place.

[bpd1151]

Can a mod please move this down to the trouble shooting forum?

 

I posted it in the wrong place.

 

Fixed.

 

Mike :yo:

[bpd1151]

Sounds to me, to be something similar other owners experienced involving the dubious "chaffed wires" syndrome.

 

No TSB was ever issued on the subject matter as far as I am aware of (to date) and most Service Techs are clueless on the topic as well.

 

For further info, please read any (or all) of the info contained in the following three threads:

 

#1.) http://www.ecoboostownerforums.com/showthread.php?557-Intermittent-Slow-acceleration-issues&highlight=chaffed+wires

 

#2.) http://www.ecoboostownerforums.com/showthread.php?312-Wow!-Car-woke-up!&highlight=chaffed+wires

 

#3.) http://www.ecoboostownerforums.com/showthread.php?775-Infrequent-stumbling-at-low-speeds-leaving-traffic-lights&highlight=chaffed+wires

 

Good luck :thumb:

 

Hope it's of some help. If not, re-post and hopefully some other members will attempt to help duplcate the matter for you.

 

Me personally, I tried, but was unsuccessful. :noidea:

[Crash712us]

I agree with what Bpd said, read the threads he has linked to yours. Either inspect the wire yourself or take to a different dealer if you feel they aren't give this problem appropriate attention. I have read and re read your post to do my best to understand what your experiencing. I find it odd you can hear your car dumping boost during middling acceleration and your car is completely stock, this to me because my car it not stock and my cold air kit is largely responsible for me being able to hear turbo or blow off and to hear blow off and to hear blow I needed build up about 15psi boost rapidly and then get off the gas quickly then I'll get a whoosh.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your not hearing what your hearing. I just find it odd that you could that all under your given circumstance. I would pick me up some 1/4 in. Wire loom and slip over knock sensor wires, just for shits and giggles. And if that don't work find a dealer that is will to road test with a diagnostic machine to see exactly what's happening, if it's a chaffing issue there will excessively high knock counts and hence poor performance.

 

 

Good luck!

[Blaine109]

I was the one who originally discovered the chaffed wire issue you posted above. My wires are in good condition.

[tss]

"I also get a decent rumble vibration in the steering wheel while in drive and at a stop (stop light, drive-thru, etc.). The vibration builds as the car gets up to operating temperature. There have been times when it was definitely worse than it gets now but it still noticeable. No change in vibration after a fresh oil change and going back to a Motorcraft filter from a Mobil1 filter."

 

 

 

Blaine: You may be dealing with two issues. Keep that in mind. I have the above quoted issue but not the remainder of your problems. I too did a precautionary wire loom even though there was no chaffing present. My dealer also told me it is operating normally as well. Somebody here explained that perhaps it was just the nature of DI engines. Coming from V8s for the past decade, it is possible I am just getting used to a V6 DI. In any event, I feel like if i could boost up the idle RPM 25 or 50, it would resolve - hoping a Livernois tune enables me to do that eventually (or simply fixes the issue).

[bobback]

What year is your car and how many miles are on it?

 

I have about 14 k miles and have noticed no vibrations in steering wheel. Won't be able to run the test in 3rd for a few days. I have noticed that once in a great while, when I give'r the onion, that it's almost like the turbo isn't kicking in. I still accelerate but just not like normal. Since it's rare that this happens I have chalked it up to normal.

 

Surprised that the dealer hasn't done a road test with you.

[Blaine109]

I've got a 2010 w/ 39K miles on it. I have done a road test where they made some recordings. While the tech was riding and making the recording he was saying that all the numbers look fine. He said he would go through them more and get back with me on what he finds, if anything. He never got back to me. The thing is, if you are getting a bad reading, like let's say a high knock count, the car is going to adjust and compensate and all your other readings will look correct.

 

During the road test I could replicate the issues I have stated but the tech said that if you give it a lot of gas it'll drown it out. Problem is, I was only giving it about 15% throttle and drowning it out in 3rd gear at 30 MPH. Hence I think they are a bunch of idiots because you should not have these types of issues and considering that I used to not have them and do now should raise a flag that something is off.

 

I feel like every time I go to the dealership they look at me like I'm a thorn in their side and really aren't motivated to help me out.

[tss]

I feel your pain with respect to your dealership. I had a rude awakening when I took my car there for the first time. Just not what I was accustomed to.

 

For what its worth, even though I just have the rough idle complaint, mine is also a 2010, 49K miles.

[The Bone]

You have to take the tech for a ride to demonstrate to him what is happening then he will be able to fix the problem.

[Blaine109]

That is incorrect because I have taken him for a ride and he thinks like it's supposed to drive like a standard'03 Taurus POS that he's used to working on.

[RedCandySHO]

I am out and about today and will give this a try. Unfortunately, I run a tune in mine so it is not a true test. But at least you will know if a tune will correct the issue

[mjhpadi]

I am amazed how little the techs have dealt or know about the Ecoboost in the SHO. Most dealerships do not have a tech that is experienced or has even driven a SHO, so it is not surprising that the are unfamiliar with how they are intended to perform. It is the one area where Ford has been lax with this car...the techs are not up to speed with the car. Just FYI, one of the first things I did was allow my service manager to take my car out for a run since he had no experience with the SHO, so he is fully aware of the car's performance and how it runs when it is right. Luckily I deal with a small dealership and this really has worked to my benefit. Sure hope you can get the problem figured out. Just one question, have you had the opportunity to drive another SHO to compare it with yours? Also, I wonder if the steering "rumble" might be because of the electric power steering?

[EcoBrick Bob]

Here in Iowa the tech's are pretty good as they have experience with the new EB F-150 pickup. Dealers likely sell 60-70& pickups and 1/2 or more are now EB!!!!!

 

I have done what you asked, (not recently but earlier) and my EB engine and tranny has always had smooth and relatively linear acceleration. Essentially... what you are doing is what is done in a DYNO run.

[bpd1151]

What did Steve Ling say at the Nat'l SHO Convention in regards to SHO sales overall?

 

Wasn't it like 33% or 34% of ALL Taurus sales were SHO's EBB?

 

i can't remember exactly.

[EcoBrick Bob]

That's in the range... though I think it's high, at least both here and in SW Florida.

[Crash712us]

OK Blaine I remember from Shoforum now. Have you tuned your car? I know when my car was stock I did not care for how the car shifted and how much gas you had to give to get the car to down shift and respond. That what my main reason to seek out a tune in the first place, and the tune absolutely made shifting much better and more responsive. While I am not exactly sure this what your experiencing, it was just a thought. Is there another member around you, or perhaps test drive one on a lot somewhere? While you are asking other to try to get there car to try to do the same thing, I am not certain that everyone will have the same experience just because each of us are different. All I am saying if drove your car I may not be able to perceive what you are, and for as long as you have been dealing with this problem makes me wonder if your not experiencing the same thing myself experience and other as well that prompted them to tune. Because initially I was not looking for performance in my car I just didn't like how the cars transmission behaved. While I can understand not tuning your car if you believe it to have problems, and to shell out $$$ to make your problems worse. I would investigate what are LMS's return policy or torrie's are at unleashed. To see if the have a satisfaction guaranty to enable you to test the tune.

[Blaine109]

I actually have Livernois tunes and the issue still occurs with or without the tunes.

 

I've actually been thinking a lot about this. The tech says everything with the engine is running good. What if my issue is with a failing or failed PTU. I've checked for leaks and all but didn't see any. I can grab the drive shaft while the vehicle is in pack and can twist it back and forth like it has a little play but by hand I couldn't rotate it as stated in TSB-10-22-04. Curious to know if that it is normal to be able to twist a little back and forth while in park. Anyone else know if they can do that to theirs? The reason I say that is because the vibration in the steering wheel is definitely more prevalent while the vehicle is in gear. While in park or neutral there is next to nothing as far as vibration goes in the steering wheel. The vibration can really only be felt while at a stop and in gear.

 

Another symptom that I seem to have is while accelerating through 3rd gear I get what feels like overdrive kicking in mid way through and will have a 100-200 RPM power drop in mid 3rd gear.

 

I'm just wondering that if that at the time the PTU is supposed to be transferring power to the rear wheels that it may be malfunctioning and that is why I'm feeling my power loss at always the same specific time or instance (ie. always get that RPM drop mid 3rd gear).

[Crash712us]

Hmmm you maybe on to something there? Next time I have my car in the air I will check, I know other vehicles I worked on the is always a little slack in the drive train. As to vibration in gear I would really like to be able to feel myself. I know every car I've ever own idles smoother in park or neutral, and their is a change once in gear. But with that said I take it your vibration abnormally rough. I will do some testing on my car to see if I can try to experience any of the things you are perceiving. Have you had any of the TSB's applied to your car with plugs or transmission?

[Blaine109]

Transmission TSB was performed (still get a hard hit on the tranny every once in a blue moon). Plugs have been replaced. Plugs were first replaced when we were first chasing down the knock-sensor wire issue. I replaced the plugs again recently chasing down my current issue.

[RedCandySHO]

Blaine. I tried this today. From a stop light, I accelerated normally until it went into 3rd gear. Was right around 30mph. I gave it light throttle without it kicking down a gear. Mine did the exact same thing. RPM's started to go up, then dropped down 300-400rpm and it acted like it was stepping up in RPM's. So, I guess it is normal. I have a sneaking suspicion I know why the RPM's drop, but without data logging it, I cannot confirm. My guess is the torque convert is locking up which causes the RPM drop. It didn't feel strange, and I never would have noticed until you pointed it out. I did not hear any air rushing sound though. Hope it helps.

[Crash712us]

Blaine. I tried this today. From a stop light' date=' I accelerated normally until it went into 3rd gear. Was right around 30mph. I gave it light throttle without it kicking down a gear. Mine did the exact same thing. RPM's started to go up, then dropped down 300-400rpm and it acted like it was stepping up in RPM's. So, I guess it is normal. I have a sneaking suspicion I know why the RPM's drop, but without data logging it, I cannot confirm. My guess is the torque convert is locking up which causes the RPM drop. It didn't feel strange, and I never would have noticed until you pointed it out. I did not hear any air rushing sound though. Hope it helps.[/quote']

 

Red glad you could you reproduce and your guess for the rpm drop is both very logical and highly probable. I will test myself today a report back.

[Blaine109]

I'm headed out on vacation this week so when I get back in 10 days I'll read up on all your input and jump back on this issue. Thanks for all your input so far.

[EcoBrick Bob]

In my G8 GT which has a 3,000 Circle - D stall, when it goes into lockup in 6th at around 55 mph, the RPM's drop way off. Due to my Magnaflow exhaust and headers, it is very obvious. Also, it won't lock up at lower speeds until tranny is warm, which now takes much longer because of the big tranny cooler we installed. So... like Red Candy SHO said... the drop in RPM is normal when locking up. I know my Flex shifts up much more quickly when at part throttle, and also locks up at a much lower speed. It also takes more throttle to un-lock, though it is instant when enough throttle is added.

 

However, if the lockup isn't smooth, or there is a shutter.. the tranny needs more tuning.