10SECSHO Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 What is the 1/4 time difference between a performance package SHO vs Non with all else being equal? Sorry if this question has been asked before.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve142857 Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 This has been debated a lot and I can tell you this: a non-pp with HR springs is as fast as a pp on the 1/4 mile and the non-pp is faster on the 0-60. My car was about one tenth behind Darrell's pp car, with same tune and same mods except that he has wheels that weight 23 lbs less of rotating mass... That 92 lbs represents about a tenth just by itself without the rotating effects... Now many will come in saying that the final ratio blablabla, but that is in theory. In real world it's mostly the stiffer suspension that makes the pp quicker. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBrick Bob Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 The weight difference for Darrells Interlagos 20" wheels with Conti DW's or Nittos is not that much. His wheels are about 9-10 lbs lighter each, and the tires maybe 3-4 lbs at the max. So.. Maybe 50 lbs total. Even my setup with 18" and 18 lb Interlagos and 25 lb Michelin Pilot Super Sports only save 20 lbs a wheel or 80 lbs total. My wheels are also 7% smaller, which gives me a 3.42 axle ratio in the Brick. I will know more just how much they help when I test in a couple weeks. I would guess it's good for a couple tenths. Of course, I also have H & R's plus air bags in rear. The latter helps my Flex more that on a SHO as the front of the Flex lifts more by design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoman04 Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 HA 10SECSHO I have the fastest times at the hottest temp I have the PP installed.(stock 13.7sec @95deg , w/LIVERNOIS TUNE &AIRAID CAI 1ST TIME 13.141sec@ 97deg, My 2nd time out lost 180lb and ran 13.045 @95deg. So I think the PPmakes a drifferent!! Just ME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve142857 Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 HA 10SECSHO I have the fastest times at the hottest temp I have the PP installed.(stock 13.7sec @95deg ' date=' w/LIVERNOIS TUNE &AIRAID CAI 1ST TIME 13.141sec@ 97deg, My 2nd time out lost 180lb and ran 13.045 @95deg. So I think the PPmakes a drifferent!! Just ME.[/quote']Hard to compare when cars aren't racing under same conditions, ideally at the same time like when we were all at Milan dragway a few weeks ago. Your car is fast Shoman, but I have read more stories about stock SHO's running higher times than yours at cooler temperatures... It appears that my car seems to be faster than supposed too. I ran a 13.5 at 102.5mph a year ago when I was stock with only HR springs. I ran a 13.3 at 104.5mph when stock with exhaust, Airaid and HR springs. I ran 12.6 at 111.5mph with same mods plus stage 4+. So, it seems that my non-pp compared to your pp is about 0.4-0.5 faster with similar mods, so how lower would you have run with same weather conditions. I noticed that every 10 degrees F translates to one tenth in E.T. at 1/4 miles. So, your 13.04 at 95 would be just about 12.6 at 50F like when my non-pp ran its 12.6 as well... Who knows? I'd be curious to line up two cars, same day one beside another, one pp and one non pp, two runs, each run in different lane and then compare... But then again, some cars are faster out of the factory than others... ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoman04 Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 STEVE you are my IDOL!!!!!LOL And I really want to make the 12sec CLUB!!!!!! BUT IT's TO HOT IN HOT ATLANTA So I will not be going back to the track until NOV. (the last run of the yr). We may have to meet up in Detroit next yr the OLD LADY love road trips and I get to go play with the OTHER WOMAN (SHO)LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpd1151 Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 My Non-PP's faster than your Non-PP Steve :brick: :bolt: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBrick Bob Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 My grandson's tricycle is faster than your daughters tricycle Mike....... Whoop!!! Whoop!!! Whoop!!!! * but I think your SHO with the new downpipes will be faster than Steve. Your shoes also help given their weight savings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash712us Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Everyone taking about there PP's is starting to get uncomfortable:drum: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got5onIt Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Road & Track says the 2010 PP SHO is a few tenths faster in the 1/4 mile: " Although well dressed in base trim, the real action is in the shouldn't-be-optional Performance Package that delivers a numerically higher final-drive gear — a strong tonic for this mature performance car's corpus. This shorter gearing surprisingly didn't improve the SHO's 0–60 time (due to an additional shift), but its advantages were palpable in the quarter mile with 3/10ths of a second shaved and a 2.2-mph faster trap speed. Sportier summer tires on 20-in. wheels and improved front brake pads are two more commendable Performance Package improvements, as are a more precise calibration of the electric power steering and the ability to turn the traction/stability control completely off. The amalgamation of these upgrades resulted in an additional 0.06g around the skidpad, an extra 2.1 mph in the slalom and reduced braking distances from 60 and 80 mph by 8 and 15 ft., respectively. These tools put the needed final edge on the SHO's performance, and with no apparent downside. " Link to article: http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/2010-ford-taurus-sho-vs.-2010-mitsubishi-lancer-evolution-mr-touring They ran a 13.6 @ 103.2mph 1/4 mile with it. Not bad for a 4k lb car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBrick Bob Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 My PP is :flame: faster:flame: than your PP!!! LOL... When you're my age... it better be!!!! Unfortunately, when I P... it takes way.... too long.....:biggrin1::biggrin1::Cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10SECSHO Posted August 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 I guess that answers it.:RpS_tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve142857 Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 EBB: I thought Darrell told me 23 lbs each wheel combo, but you seem to know better than us lol! But two things I forgot: 1) My car was between 200-220F; his was probably much cooler as he has a 170F and aux trans cooler. 2) I believe he also has the super Hennessey CAI. So those two factors, plus lighter wheels... We ran two runs together, the first I won by 0.04 sec and the second he had his best of the day which was 0.14 sec faster than mine... So, as I said non PP with HR springs gets you very close to PP performances... Lol I love arguing about this topic. I would probably have opted for the PP but it was not available in Canada... Cheers! P.S. Mike: your car is probably faster than mine now ( with downpipes mod) but on that day, we both had same best ET... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBrick Bob Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 The 170 deg T-stat with my Custom CAI gets readings in the 180 deg range on the hwy, as well as on the return road at the strip, after a WOT, and the slow down. When waiting in the lanes, or getting ready to stage, it will run about 10 deg cooler than the stock T-stat. Tuning the T-stat just turns the fans on at a lower temp. The Stock T-stat fan setting would have the fans on in your car at the temps you describe. Once you reach the temp that opens the T-stat, both cars would work the same to attempt to bring the temp back down. The only difference is that a lower temp T-stat, and lower fan temp settings, will bring the temp down further if there is enough air going thru the front. The Hennessey CAI is a work of art, but has a couple flaws. #1. It is made of Aluminum which will not cool down like our plastic piping. I.E. once hot, it stays hotter longer. Second, according to Darrell, it does not taper down to the turbo inlet, but is bigger diameter. Because the turbo is sucking air, this may have minimal effect, but there is a possibility that the air flow is disrupted. Here is a link to TSW - Interlagos Wheel Data which shows weight and sizes. http://www.tsw.com/alloy_wheels_Interlagos.php Darrell is running the 20" x 8 1/2" & was running Conti DW (summer tires), but think he has replaced. I am running the 18" x 9" with Michelin Pilot Super Sports. However, all of my stripping was with my 18" ASA's and Conti DW's, with my winter runs using 285-40-18" Nitto DR's & TSW's on the front. Here is a link to TSW - Nurburgring Wheel Data... Same info.... http://www.tsw.com/alloy_wheels_Nurburgring.php BPD is running the 20" x 8 1/2" on front and 20" x 10" on rear with Conti DWS (all Season) For comparison, our stock 20" wheels (SHO, Flex & Lincolns) are between 30-32 lbs each. The stock 19"s would be less, but how much I don't know. Tire weight can be found at TireRack, for anyone who is interested. Just find the tire model, click on specs, and go to the appropriate size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danhyder Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 The 2013 SHO with PP has 14% more power in the first 4 gears than a regular SHO. I want some real acceleration numbers on this stock setup. Motortrend and Car and Driver tested it with great reviews, but they didn't measure acceleration (they lied and copied the 2010 numbers). I called them out on twitter... The car is fast, handles extremely well, stops on a dime and the sport tuned suspension is firm yet comfy as well. I'm so happy with this car. The last top gear tested the SHO against the RT Charger and new V8 Caprice 0-100-0, and the results were shocking. The RT and Caprice got destroyed by at least 5-6 car lengths. 60-0 in 106 ft? Thats amazing for this heavy of a car. Most sports cars can't do that. I think the car magazines don't respect the Taurus. They need to do a real test. That being said, these mods you guys have done sound amazing. Seriously fast sedans. This is a great forum - just joined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpd1151 Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 These mods you guys have done sound amazing. Seriously fast sedans. This is a great forum - just joined. Thanks for registering! This forums community has developed into a pretty cool place thus far :thumb: Thanks entirely to all of the members (both premium and basic), as well as the supporting vendors alike! We look forward to your contributions here on EBOF. Mike :yo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjhpadi Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 The 2013 SHO with PP has 14% more power in the first 4 gears than a regular SHO. That being said, these mods you guys have done sound amazing. Seriously fast sedans. This is a great forum - just joined. First,:welcome: Glad that you've joined us. Next, I'm not sure I understand your statement about the PP having 14% more power then a nonPP car? Are you saying that the same engine is making 14% more horsepower? Since it is the same engine I can't quite buy that, or are you implying that the lower gear ratio is yielding better numbers at the rear wheels? Just wondered and was looking for an explanation. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBrick Bob Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 14% more P P.... is a biiiggggggg deal... (to me at least) Think he is talking about gear ratios. In reality, it depends on much more... Like traction, speed in each gear relative to 0-60 and 1/4 mi. Also, there is going to be slight differences in engines, prior to any mods. If you change tire diameter like I have, you can also change your gearing. Losing un-sprung weight by purchasing lighter wheels/tires can also affect your useable power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danhyder Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 It's from the gearing. Detailed in a couple articles (one was motortrend) and I also have a friend who works at ford and worked on the development team who confirmed this. The PP makes the car very different in 2013. Compared to the non-pp, it has enhanced cooling everywhere, bigger brakes, revised gearing, suede steering wheel, tuned suspension and tuned steering. You can feel the difference between the two cars. It's a pricey option, but you get a lot for the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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