Various Livernois tune stages?

[ArthurJGuy]

I was hoping to find this somewhere, but I didn't see a sticky and Livernois never PM'ed me back, I also didn't see it on their website.

 

I have seen many mentions of Stage X tune or Stage X+ tune, etc. Is there a list of what the changes are for each stage and what fuel is required? I have 91 available here (no 93) but I am not opposed to running a 100 octane tune either when needed.

 

Thanks!

 

PS, I am not against spraying water/meth, however I do not want a primary tune that depends on it for safety.

[mjhpadi]

Yes, Livernois does have a list of the tunes and I am not sure exactly what changes are in each stage. I know that Livernois will do tunes for 91 octane fuel, so that isn't a problem. I believe that the more aggressive tunes (Stage 4 & 4+ are the only ones that require 93 or higher octane). Lastly if you are going to go the meth route, it is a separate tune..I believe it is referred to as Stage 5.

[ArthurJGuy]

Gotcha, I am hoping that they can lay out the list of what is improved on in each stage so that I can decide.

 

I'm not against swapping to a meth tune or a 100 octane tune when I know I'll be playing, I just don't want to have a tune in the car on a daily basis that depends on either of those.

[mjhpadi]

I have been running Stage 4+ as my daily tune for about a year without problems and I believe the difference between Stages 2 & 3 is that one of them has torque management and the other does not...I'm sure if you contact Rick at LMS he will provide all the info you could want and answer all your questions about their tunes. Rick has been very helpful and supportive of all of us here.

[ArthurJGuy]

I'm sure if you contact Rick at LMS he will provide all the info you could want and answer all your questions about their tunes. Rick has been very helpful and supportive of all of us here.

 

 

...Livernois never PM'ed me back' date=' I also didn't see it on their website.[/quote']

 

I asked him Friday morning and he has read the message, but not responded yet.

[brucelinc]

I presume your SHO is a 2010 - 1012? If so, Stages 1, 2 and 3 are available in either 91 or 93 octane versions. The difference between the 91 and 93 versions is 2 degrees of timing. Stage 4+ is 93 octane only.

 

Stage 1 is transmission modifications only - no engine changes except removal of speed limiter.

Stage 2 is increased boost from 12 PSI to around 13.5 PSI along with advanced timing & air/fuel mods and REDUCED torque management for the transmission.

Stage 3 is the same as stage 2 but with NO torque management for the transmission.

Stage 4+ is around 14.5 -15 PSI of boost, the boost comes on sooner and stays longer at higher RPM, further advanced timing and SOME torque management. Needs 93 octane or more.

 

Rick will confirm but this is what he told me when I got my tunes last month. If you have a 2013, you can disregard this post. I think there is only one tune for a 2013 and it is like 4+.

[steve142857]

Bruce is correct... Only the boost levels... not sure if stock has 12 psi (more like 8-11 not sustained), but the logic is very accurate.

If you have 93 octane, no brainer, stage 4+ is the best tune by far and very respectful of the car's reliability.

My estimation of the equivalent power per stage is the following:

Stock 365hp

Stage 2 420hp

Stage 3 420hp (but shifts firmer)

Stage 4 430hp (shifts too firm imo... I actually am the one asking for the creation of stage 4+)

Stage 4+ 440hp (perfect tune for power and smoothness)

Stage 5 (meth) 470hp (with SCT tuner)

Stage 5 (meth) 500hp (with MyCal device that has more tables for better tuning)

 

If you add CAI and modify exhaust with third cat delete and X-pipe with 2.5" tubing and dynomax, I believe it adds another 20hp or so. With downpipes mods, I think it is another 15-20hp. with upgraded turbos, there is an extra 50hp on the table and the increase in torque is amazing too!

[shotyme3pt0]

Bruce is correct... Only the boost levels... not sure if stock has 12 psi (more like 8-11 not sustained), but the logic is very accurate.

If you have 93 octane, no brainer, stage 4+ is the best tune by far and very respectful of the car's reliability.

My estimation of the equivalent power per stage is the following:

Stock 365hp

Stage 2 420hp

Stage 3 420hp (but shifts firmer)

Stage 4 430hp (shifts too firm imo... I actually am the one asking for the creation of stage 4+)

Stage 4+ 440hp (perfect tune for power and smoothness)

Stage 5 (meth) 470hp (with SCT tuner)

Stage 5 (meth) 500hp (with MyCal device that has more tables for better tuning)

 

If you add CAI and modify exhaust with third cat delete and X-pipe with 2.5" tubing and dynomax, I believe it adds another 20hp or so. With downpipes mods, I think it is another 15-20hp. with upgraded turbos, there is an extra 50hp on the table and the increase in torque is amazing too!

 

Are there different tunes available for supporting mods? Or are the tunes just basic assuming you have already installed the bolt ons? I would imagine the tune would be different for a stock vehicle vs. a car that is breathing a bit easier with an aftermarket turbo back exhaust and intake.

Are the tunes all for 91 octane or are their increased boost and timing levels available for 93 octane users? Or would a bone stock, 91 octane user only use a stage 3 tune?

 

Thanks

[steve142857]

Stage 2-3 can be adapted for octane 91 or 93. Stage 4, 4+ require 93 octane. Stage 5 requires methanol.

They won't change the tune for an intake (only noise, but no gain has been proven so far with any CAI), but they are modifying the tune a bit if you have aftermarket exhaust depending on the type of exhaust (third cat delete, X-pipe, downpipes). And of course you have the creme de la creme with th eupgraded turbos/downpipes/methanol that have their own tune, but only two so far have gone that route.

Anyways, anytime someone wants a tune from Livernois, that person needs to mention all mods and they will adapt the tunes accordingly.

[shoman04]

Ha Steve If I add downpipe and X-pipe will LMS tweek my stage 4+ for them? How much do they charge to upgrade your tune when we add mods?

[Crash712us]

No tune tweeking needed for exhaust mods, except maybe down pipes.

[shotyme3pt0]

Stage 2-3 can be adapted for octane 91 or 93. Stage 4, 4+ require 93 octane. Stage 5 requires methanol.

They won't change the tune for an intake (only noise, but no gain has been proven so far with any CAI), but they are modifying the tune a bit if you have aftermarket exhaust depending on the type of exhaust (third cat delete, X-pipe, downpipes). And of course you have the creme de la creme with th eupgraded turbos/downpipes/methanol that have their own tune, but only two so far have gone that route.

Anyways, anytime someone wants a tune from Livernois, that person needs to mention all mods and they will adapt the tunes accordingly.

 

That makes sense. I guess Livernois can make a slightly different tune depending on mods. Now can you explain the difference between the SCT and the My Cal Tuner? It's not clear on their site.

 

Thanks again

[19cobra99]

What is the difference between 4 and 4+?

[ArthurJGuy]

I presume your SHO is a 2010 - 1012? If so, Stages 1, 2 and 3 are available in either 91 or 93 octane versions. The difference between the 91 and 93 versions is 2 degrees of timing. Stage 4+ is 93 octane only.

 

Stage 1 is transmission modifications only - no engine changes except removal of speed limiter.

Stage 2 is increased boost from 12 PSI to around 13.5 PSI along with advanced timing & air/fuel mods and REDUCED torque management for the transmission.

Stage 3 is the same as stage 2 but with NO torque management for the transmission.

Stage 4+ is around 14.5 -15 PSI of boost, the boost comes on sooner and stays longer at higher RPM, further advanced timing and SOME torque management. Needs 93 octane or more.

 

Rick will confirm but this is what he told me when I got my tunes last month. If you have a 2013, you can disregard this post. I think there is only one tune for a 2013 and it is like 4+.

 

Thanks! This is exactly the information I was looking for, however if I buy it will be a 2013 so it sounds like this may not even apply. I'm hoping Rick can clarify because if there is only one tune for 2013 that is 4+ that requires 93, and I can not get 93, am I up a creek here?

[ArthurJGuy]

What is the difference between 4 and 4+?

 

I'm also curious of this.

[JMR76]

I recently received the tune from Livernois for my 2013 SHO stock. I received the stock tune, 91 tune and 93 tune, although I just needed and ordered the 93 tune. I can't tell you the difference between the 91 and 93 since I only have used the 93 though. So if you can get 91 you can still get a tune.

[Boggus]

Strange ... I have a 2013 and only have one tune. Thought they only had one tune available for 2013? Not sure what the tune is equivalent to compared to the 2010-2012 tunes. I only run 93 here.

[Crash712us]

Tunes for 2013's are a equivalent to stage +4.

The difference between 4 and +4 is a little more boost and torque management add.

[steve142857]

Yep, stage 4+ is faster and smoother.

Stage 4 is useless as 4+ is the improved version of stage 4. I ran the 1/4 mile 0.2 seconds faster with stage 4+ and I felt like my car thanked me for the added torque management.

I remember when I called Rick and asked for a tune with more power and that would shift smoother... Not long after, I received an email with a message from Rick saying: here you go Steve, try this, Dan says you should like it... The attachment was stage 4+ and I believe it has been their best tune (without meth) for more than a year now... With exhaust mod (x-pipe and third cat delete), springs and cai, I ran 12.6 seconds at 111mph+ with stage 4+... If memory is good, I believe my best with stage 4 (dont remember if I had exhaust or not) was 12.9 at 109mph.

Thanks Livernois!

[brucelinc]

It is my understanding that what we are all calling stage 4+ has basically replaced stage 4. I am not sure that the original stage 4 file is even used anymore. 4+ has a bit more boost - especially at higher RPM - and has the torque management. It offers better performance than the old stage 4 and it puts less shock on the drivetrain. It is a great high performance tune that works fine for a daily driver.

 

Based on my butt-o-meter, the difference between stock and stage 2 is very dramatic. My MKS would not break the tires loose on dry pavement when stock but with stage 2, it would break loose off the line and again on the 1-2 upshift. After about a week, I went to 4+ and the biggest difference I felt was between 4500 and 6500 RPM. It is still strong (maybe stronger) off the line but it pulls REALLY hard in higher RPM range. The engine seems to have a different sound than before, too - very aggressive - and I have no intake or exhaust mods.

 

If all I could get was 91 octane, I would still get the tune, though. Stage 2 (or 3) is a awesome upgrade over stock.

[tss]

And stage 3 has no TM. I personally don't like that. I agree with Steve that the cars wants a little TM. I have found 4+ (again, 4 has been replaced with 4+) to be the best. If I could not run 4+, I would run 2 , NOT 3.

[Crash712us]

Fellas these tunes shouldn't really be ranked in stages. What we have here are different tune files of evolvement of LMS tune for the Taurus.

Most if not all of them have been developed for Darrell's car either on the dyno or at track. So what we are seeing is a progressive development of a tune edging our way up the HP ladder. To see what works best, tuning is always on going and no tuner has the time to dyno tune and track test day after day with one car. So it's spread out over months or years of tuning and testing.

[ArthurJGuy]

So, to clear up the confusion since Rick hasn't gotten back to me yet.

 

2013 has only two tunes; 4+ for 91 and 4+ for 93.

 

Is there a 100 octane tune available for 2013?

[Crash712us]

2 tunes 91&93 that's it. Which I am sure Rick will provide all files with your purchase.

[gpfarrell]

So, to clear up the confusion since Rick hasn't gotten back to me yet.

 

2013 has only two tunes; 4+ for 91 and 4+ for 93.

 

Is there a 100 octane tune available for 2013?

 

You know, the internet is a funny thing. And maybe I'm just not reading your treads correctly... but I find them to be a bit impatient. I get that the Livernois website is imperfect. We'd all always like to know more. I've never spent a dollar with Livernois (but it's next on my to-do list) but I've already benefited from Rick's availability here.

 

So you're looking at a $599 tune, right? $599... not $599,000 right? You want personalized service from a company that seems to have a stellar reputation for personalized service... but are you expecting the president of the companty to drop everything and answer your question? I'm sure your question seems simple to you, but reading through this thread we've seen it evolve from the assumed 2010-2012 to your 2013, plus additional questions on now on 100 octane tunes.

 

So no answer is ever as simple as the initial question seems.

 

Plus, the other members here have given you lots of information.

 

I'm glad to see you've edited-out your bit about "always doing your own tuning" in the past... but maybe take a deep breath and relax, huh?

 

We're lucky to have vendors that provide such incredible improvements to such a low-volume niche vehicle. Just because he hasn't breathlessly replied to your message... which has already been answered several times above... doesn't mean it's cool to make little snyde remarks.

 

Like I said, maybe I'm reading your messages wrong... and if so I'm sorry for the mini-rant.