dudeuconfuseme Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Have a 2010 Lincoln MKS eco. Took to the track, stock....Ran twice, Temp was about 50 degrees. Ran a 15.9 and a 15.7. Not happy at all. Took car to ford and complained of no power, also a sync problem of when asking for phone, get user profile. and condensation in headlamps. Ford kept car 2 days and found no problems, said they tested it vs other eco cars and it was in range...6.7 0-60. Funny every thing I read is 13.9-14-5 quater mile, and 5.3 0-60. I thought maybe it's in the tune, so I got the Livernois Motorsports tune and cold air intake. Loaded the stage 4 and went again. another nice day, 50 degrees, Ran 3 times, 2 13.9 and a 14.0. Took me to stock times. My friend has a SHO, and ran a 13.2 with the same. My question is, has anyone had the same issue? Can't believe this is normal as a MKZ, or a normal MKS runs these times. Asked Rick and has not seen this before. Any ideas??? Thanks JB:tsk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livernois Motorsports Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 I've definitely never had another car with this issue. The stock ET's you listed for the EcoBoost MKS seem right, but for some reason your car seems way off. Did you try taking it to a different dealership to get their thoughts? -Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBrick Bob Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Seems awfully slow. Johnny Langdon's MKT is much faster. Stock Flex/MKT should be around 14.5 or a bit less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudeuconfuseme Posted December 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Not yet, will do so after holidays....Ya had some guy come up to me the first time and said, I thought this was a turbo...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjhpadi Posted December 18, 2011 Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 Hmm, sorry to hear of this problem, hope you can find what is causing it. Please keep us updated. One note a few of us discovered some of the sensor wires were rubbing the engine and caused a real lose of power. I can't remember the name of the sensor but it is on the front driver side. However it is well hidden and hard to see and reach. Hopefully, somebody will read this and offer more info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Langton Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Hmm' date=' sorry to hear of this problem, hope you can find what is causing it. Please keep us updated. One note a few of us discovered some of the sensor wires were rubbing the engine and caused a real lose of power. I can't remember the name of the sensor but it is on the front driver side. However it is well hidden and hard to see and reach. Hopefully, somebody will read this and offer more info.[/quote']That would be the knock sensor wires I've read about doing that. My question for them is this-What's the elevation of the track and how much stuff is in the car? What fuel? What is the MPH of the runs? JL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livernois Motorsports Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Hmm' date=' sorry to hear of this problem, hope you can find what is causing it. Please keep us updated. One note a few of us discovered some of the sensor wires were rubbing the engine and caused a real lose of power. I can't remember the name of the sensor but it is on the front driver side. However it is well hidden and hard to see and reach. Hopefully, somebody will read this and offer more info.[/quote'] Good call! From the other site So I got a call today from the service manager with some "news" on my situation. The data that he sent up to Ford was analyzed and they noticed that just preceding the opening of the wastegate one of the knock sensors was reading about 500 ticks more than the other knock sensors. What does the computer do when it detects excessive knock? It cuts power to the engine so that it doesn't go BOOOOOM!!!! Interesting. So, the engineer told the service manager to inspect for a chaffed wire. If one could not be found he was to replace the knock sensor giving the excessive readings. So I immediately headed over to the dealership so we could start looking. After giving the engine 10-15 minutes to cool we started digging. And what did we find? If you said a chaffed wire then give yourself a cookie. The wires go to one of the knock sensors below the intake manifold. You can see that wires that come up into a connecter and were not wrapped in any electrical tape or in any type of protective plastic shrouding and it was resting right on a 90 degree edge on the engine. This would explain how my issue started as a once and a while issue and degraded into a full-time issue as the chaffing progressed and got worse. First remove the engine cover just to make sure it's out of the way so you can get a good look from all angles. Look down between the 2 intake pipes. We saw a connector with wires that were not wrapped in any extra electrical tape or plastic shrouding. From this angle you can better see the wires resting on the engine. The chaffing is on the sensor side of the connector which means that they will have to replace the knock sensor. In the meantime we have put a piece of foam insulation on the engine where the wires rest to prevent it from further chaffing and giving false knock readings. I must say that performance is starting to come back. Since we didn't reset the KAM memory, it is taking some time for new values/averages that the PCM uses to run the engine are being used and faded out as new values are factored in and averaged. Power is coming back, the erratic RPM's are fading, the wastegate is bleeding off less and less air with every mile I go. The new knock sensor should be in Tuesday but depending on what time it comes in I may not get my car back in there till Wednesday. I will have them reset the KAM and also check to see if there are any more software updates available to get me all up to date on everything. I'll report back Sunday/Monday as I put more miles on my car to let you know if the condition continues to get better as well as what it's like when I get the new sensor in. I will be taking a road trip tomorrow so I will get to get a good like to see if my HWY MPG's are improving. With this issue I was only getting 21 - 22 MPG tops on the HWY when I used to get 26-27 (while driving 80MPH - 90MPH). Now I would suggest that all of you go out and check for those wires. If they are exposed I would inspect them for any chaffing and then I would recommend wrapping them up in some electrical tape or other means of protection. -Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpd1151 Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Yep, seems like on some SHO's, the wire loom was short for w/e reason(s). I've heard of some owners having resolved this issue on their own by unplugging the switch and relocating it so the wires no longer rubbed up against the hot metal, others have used some type of object "wedged" inbetween the wire loom and the metal. Either way, it resolved the experienced issues. Here's a "before" and "after" fix to display what I'm referencing: "BEFORE" note the wires touching, laying upon, and/or rubbing on the metal.... "AFTER" wires moved out of, and off of, the metal..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjhpadi Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Thanks Rick and Mike, that is exactly what I was talking about...but I couldn't for the life of me remember it was the knock sensor....must be my memory is going in my old age..especially since I also forgot that Christmas is this coming Sunday!:frusty: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudeuconfuseme Posted December 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 That would be the knock sensor wires I've read about doing that. My question for them is this-What's the elevation of the track and how much stuff is in the car? What fuel? What is the MPH of the runs?JL Not sure of elevation, Atco Raceway, Atco NJ. Bare stock 1st time. Stage 4+ tune, cold air kit 2nd time. Octane, 93 stock, around 100-102 with tune.... Thanks Guys I'll mention this to dealer when I drop this off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Langton Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Not sure of elevation, Atco Raceway, Atco NJ. Bare stock 1st time. Stage 4+ tune, cold air kit 2nd time. Octane, 93 stock, around 100-102 with tune.... Thanks Guys I'll mention this to dealer when I drop this off. Looks to be about 4-5 mph down based on what I see others running. JL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudeuconfuseme Posted December 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 94 MPH stock, 100 MPH tuned... Looks to be about 4-5 mph down based on what I see others running. JL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudeuconfuseme Posted December 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 2nd dealer, same result Took to echelon ford, they say they spent many hours on vehicle and found nothing wrong. They said that the knock sensor is not an issue with this vehicle. So according to them 15.7 is and I quote "Peak performance"......Fucking assholes! I really don't know to do at this point. I will try to call lincoln direct, but I have a feeling I will get no where with this. This will be the last ford product I will buy, and their techs suck! Can you tell I'm a little pissed off! 58K down the drain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showgun Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Don't give up hope. There must be a reason hp is down -- you just need to find someone who can diagnose the issues. There will be someone around somewhere who can find the problem. Can't be that hard. G/L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudeuconfuseme Posted December 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Don't give up hope. There must be a reason hp is down -- you just need to find someone who can diagnose the issues. There will be someone around somewhere who can find the problem. Can't be that hard. Appearanly it is, I am not paying for something that should be under warrantee...My next step is to contact Lincoln. I'm sure they'll blow me off. I just can't believe that they can say that 15.7 is "peak performance"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjhpadi Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Even if they say the knock sensor isn't a problem, I would insist they check the wiring, since it isn't the sensor that is the problem but the wires rubbing and becoming bare. Also Ford was not aware of this problem and I don't know if they are at this point. I would insist on them checking the wiring while you are there and doing it in front of you..I bet they might find them rubbing. Again, Good luck. Your mileage is not typical regardless of what they tell you, besides you have enough people that can dispute their claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudeuconfuseme Posted January 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 did you run the car with the problem?? if so what were the times....By the way, lincoln said they would have the rep call me in 2 hours.....that was 2 days ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjhpadi Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 I did not really experience the problem other then a slight miss. I moved the wires and covered the area that was rubbing with duct tape, so the wires couldn't touch the engine and miss disappeared and mileage did improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudeuconfuseme Posted January 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 like I said Well after the 2 hours (4 days) I got got the call from the rep. She said that she can not help me. Their is no proof of any problem, and if the dealer that sold me the car can not find a problem, there is no problem. I suggested that I get the car dynoed and see if the HP is where it should be, and she said that does not work unless the dealer finds a problem. I said so you are telling me that because your service techs are a bunch of drones that have no skill, I have to live at the dealer and continue to pay for a vehcle that is not what i paid for. She said I know your not happy, but I am closing this claim, you need to talk to your dealer. I even told her about the knock sensor issue, and that the dealer did not even look into it, she said she has no knowledge of that problem. I am basicly stuck with a piece of shit that I have to continue to pay for and get no satisfaction. I am so tired of this shit, where you do everything right, pay your bills, and you get screwed, but if i was a piece of shit, i would get help from the goverment, or some satisfaction! NOW WHAT??????? PS she was the 2nd lincoln tech to tell me that I need to put more miles on the car.....what the f does that have to do with it? And she also said that motor trend, and all the other sites that test the cars are not ford, so they don't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showgun Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Crappy deal for sure man -- A dyno would confirm that the power was down but that won't tell you why or where to look. You really need to have a tech-savvy shop look into it for complete diagnosis. It will cost a few large but it looks like that's the only route left other than bailing. Having it diagnosed would be much cheaper than selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudeuconfuseme Posted January 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Found 4 wheel dyno, local, will have it done and see where i'm at. Still do not like the way ford and Lincoln handled this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showgun Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Found 4 wheel dyno' date=' local, will have it done and see where i'm at. Still do not like the way ford and Lincoln handled this.[/quote'] Understandable, but hang in there. You just might get to the route of the problem. G/L and keep us up on what happens please. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrming Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Have you done any data logging? I see you have the LMS tune, so you should be able to capture some data with your SCT device... 3 things come to mind: A/F, Timing and Boost. I would think those 3 things would give us a pretty good picture... BTW... I know this is a Ford forum... but I remember when the new Camaro came out, there was a guy that bought an SS and it SLOWER than the V6s! He battled with the dealership for a long time... got GM involved... battle with them... finally got the GM to actually send out engineers. So after MONTHS of fighting and people claiming it was "normal" they finally figured out that the dealership had filled the guys car up with 87 octane and that caused the low octane table to get LOCKED into the ECU and the only way to get the high performance/high octane table to load was to pull the fused to the ECU! Ok... I know that's not what's going on here... but moral is, this can happen with any car manufacturer... they will all claim it's normal... and you basically have to be prepared to fight... Sorry this is happening to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjhpadi Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I understand where you are at, but if you financed the car, I would call the financing company and explain nicely the problem you are having and that you are considering not paying for the car and letting them repo it, unless they can help you get this problem solved. Honestly, I think if you explain they may be able to put some weight into Ford, since it will be a real hassle for them if you quite paying for it. I understand this may mess up your credit if you follow through, but I will bet that they would be willing to make a few calls to help you get the car right. Sorry this has happened to you, good luck, I sure hope you can get it corrected...but I said Ford is not aware of the knock sensor issue, it was the savoy Ecoboost owners that figured it out, and I think there are several sharp guys here who would be willing to offer you any assistance they can to get your car straightened out. Again, good luck with this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBrick Bob Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 As I recall, that on another of the Forums, the fuse pulling, and then re-install of the modded tune helped with the EB Engine. Perhaps that would re-set everything. Worth a try... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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